mmarshall

Part of it is that Toyota has the money and resources to handle a recall this huge. They overtook GM (before GM's bankrupcy) as officially the world's largest carmaker. With the power, money and assets, of course, come the responsibilities that go with it.

Recalls this large are not that rare, either. Ford, over the years, had had enormous recalls (numbering in the tens of millions) for several issues involving flimsy/weak parking detents in the automatic transmission shift-levers that allowed cars to "jump" out of Park and roll.

LexFather

I agree here. I am now getting a lot of e-mails and calls from non car people worried about their Toyota. The funny thing is it is ALL Toyotas they are worried about. Of course most have no idea the details we know. All they know is "WTF is happening with Toyota".

This is becoming a big mess for them. Toyota without quality/reliability and/or the image of it means nothing to Americans.

They better get their act together FAST!

The G Man

Well the funny thing is that Toyota could have just stop at the floor mat recalls, but they issue more recalls to try to gain future public confidence in the brand name. Short term, there will be some back lash, but at the end, theya re doing the right thing. I bet GM would have have done the same when they were at the top.

Stormforge

i agree, but there are still some people out there who won't buckle up regardless of fines/suspension/disciplinary actions. there can be a legal/mandatory requirement to wear seatbelts, but you can't force someone to wear it if they don't want to. this is where the gov't steps in to take away their right to drive.

dsp979

More recalls over floor mats. Mods -- please move if in wrong thread. Thanks

spwolf

i wonder if this is the last... i think they are now reviewing everything under the sky and probably are going to recall everything they can right now so they can move on with clean slate...

encore888

CBS News has gotten the NHTSA video showing how the driver can respond to an ES 350 that has a trapped floor mat:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6174020n

I'm trying to determine exactly how effective were the steps the NHTSA driver took? Yes, the 3-second button shutdown sequence worked at the end...however, I'm wondering in particular about the shifting to neutral and rev limiter, it's a bit unclear how effective the steps he's taking are.

The test is also done on a circular route, during rain, so the ESC kicks in and limits the engine speed...can anyone clarify, particularly the part where he switches to neutral/reverse/park? He says something about the shifter being at the 'lowest position' or something. I wish there was a transcript?

spwolf

he is testing if the car fails some 200-250ft turning test they have... neutral is effective, he is not braking at all.

spwolf

basically he is testing if VSC works to limit throttle properly when gas pedal stuck with floormat, and it works actually properly... all that time he is not hitting brakes at all and is turning in cirecles without losing control.

then he checks out neutral and park, reverse, all work as neutral (engine is not connected to the wheels, but Revers or Park are not engaged).

for the last test he tries 3 second shut down which shuts the car down.

spwolf

so pretty much car passed the test there ;-).... i did not know that VSC is THAT effective so you can go full throttle in 200-250ft circle without ever touching the brakes.

he is either using bigger mats setup to reproduce the condition properly or they were moved considerably up to reproduce the issue, as top of the mat creates the bridge that "ups" the mat to the perfect position for it to trap the pedal.

soakgame

i have a friend that personally knew that family that died in san diego..

sad.. toyota really dropped the ball on this one

encore888

Ah, ok, thx for the clarification. So, it seems that VSC kicked in because the car was turning in a circle at high speed, and so the VSC was limiting the throttle to prevent the car from spinning out of control. However, on a straight line in dry conditions, the VSC wouldn't come on, as I expect it shouldn't.

Ah, ok, the video doesn't show the outside of the car and it's raining through the windshield, so it was a bit hard for me to see, but basically he did shift to neutral and park (the backup camera did come on but he did it rather quickly, probably because he wants to keep the car from suddenly zooming backwards). Either one of neutral or park shifts would have stopped the acceleration.

I was pondering this as supposedly the NHTSA may have noted that a gated shifter could confuse some drivers...there was also the suggestion made by some online that a rev limiter/engine damage circuit would prevent shifting into neutral, and/or there's a spring which requires the person to hold the shift lever in neutral or it will spring back to drive (but having researched more it seems all of these online posts are inaccurate).

spwolf

yeah, they tested:
1. If VSC will keep car without spinning out of the control with gas pressed all the way down and no brake pedal press...
2. Can user go into Neutral, Reverse and Park (last 2 without braking the car), and if it will detach the engine from the wheels.
3. Can you turn off the vehicle with start button while it is pedal to the metal.

At no point was brake pressed, as already reported, brakes can stop this car without any issues (tested by several mags, with last one (C&D?) found out that Camry V6 stopped quicker with pedal jammed than Ford Taurus without it), so he was not concerned by that, but if user will be able to use other safety features... seems like everything worked properly, thats why there was never an recall.

There are probably safety measures where transmission ecu does not actually engage park or revers if car is under speed, or else that transmission would be fried already ;-). He did it quickly probably not to lose speed ;-).

VSC should definetly become standard equipment on all cars as soon as possible... i knew it helps a lot, but that it helps while your V6 equipped car is at WOT, i did not know.

GS69

Toyota: Push Button Start Could Get Redesign

LOS ANGELES — Toyota is considering a redesign of its push-button ignition system, called Smart Key, to give drivers another option to kill the engine in cases of runaway acceleration.

A Toyota spokesman told the Los Angeles Times that one design chance that is under consideration would enable drivers to shut off the engine by tapping three times on the button. Currently, vehicles equipped with Smart Key can only be shut off while in motion by depressing the button for at least 3 seconds.

Toyota is also considering installation of brake override software that would automatically reduce the engine speed to idle when the brakes are applied.

The Toyota spokesman said the changes would only be implemented on future vehicles, starting no sooner than model year 2011.

Inside Line says: Look for more software changes as Toyota explores every potential safety angle and fix. — Paul Lienert, Correspondent

spwolf

toyota already said that new models are getting brake override - so it is not "considering" but adding it... they said 2010 Camry is getting it and obviously they just announced that Avalon is as well.

I wonder what did all these journalists covering recalls do before - they dont care at all to check what they are writing about.