Toyota freezes all sales of 8 models, leaving all dealerships dead in the water
01-28-10 | 04:31 AM
#136
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Nothing odd about it. The RX exclusively uses Denso pedals, just like all Japan-built Toyota models. The RX therefore is excluded from the current recalls and production stoppage.
All currently affected Toyota vehicles use CTS pedals.
Who said anything about parts being made to be defective on purpose?
Most likely this problem, along with Toyota's other quality problems over the last several years have occurred because of parts being defective by accident, or simply parts being made with insufficient quality standards.
I think this is more than simply bad luck.
All currently affected Toyota vehicles use CTS pedals.
Who said anything about parts being made to be defective on purpose?
Most likely this problem, along with Toyota's other quality problems over the last several years have occurred because of parts being defective by accident, or simply parts being made with insufficient quality standards.
I think this is more than simply bad luck.
In late 90's you had 2 major engine series with major defects that were fixed only by mid-2000s. Those were much bigger quality issues than floormats or gas pedals with no reported stickings. It is just that today Toyota is huge target.
Elkhart, IN…CTS Corporation (NYSE: CTS) today provided comments on Toyota’s recent accelerator pedal recall. As previously announced by Toyota, the January 21 voluntary recall results from what Toyota described as “a rare set of conditions which may cause the accelerator pedal to become harder to depress, slower to return or, in the worst case, stuck in a partially depressed position.” Toyota said this condition “is rare and occurs gradually over a period of time.”
As has been publically stated by Toyota, we have no knowledge of any accidents or injuries that have resulted from this rare potential condition. Based on information that Toyota has provided us, we are aware of fewer than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition.
As Toyota stated, this recall is different from and unrelated to the “sudden, unintended acceleration issue” which was the subject of the November 2009 Toyota recall. In the November recall, the pedals in Toyota models dated back to model year 2002. CTS became a pedal supplier in 2005. Accordingly, our products are not implicated by the November 2009 recall. The products we supply to Toyota, including the pedals covered by the recent recall, have been manufactured to Toyota’s design specifications.
Toyota is a small, but important, customer of CTS, representing approximately 3% of our annual sales. CTS has been actively working with Toyota for awhile to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from Toyota. The newly designed pedal is now tested and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories.
As has been publically stated by Toyota, we have no knowledge of any accidents or injuries that have resulted from this rare potential condition. Based on information that Toyota has provided us, we are aware of fewer than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition.
As Toyota stated, this recall is different from and unrelated to the “sudden, unintended acceleration issue” which was the subject of the November 2009 Toyota recall. In the November recall, the pedals in Toyota models dated back to model year 2002. CTS became a pedal supplier in 2005. Accordingly, our products are not implicated by the November 2009 recall. The products we supply to Toyota, including the pedals covered by the recent recall, have been manufactured to Toyota’s design specifications.
Toyota is a small, but important, customer of CTS, representing approximately 3% of our annual sales. CTS has been actively working with Toyota for awhile to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from Toyota. The newly designed pedal is now tested and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories.
01-28-10 | 04:34 AM
#137
I've read and seen TV reports that the problem is pedal system wear and vehicles with 35K miles or more have more of a chance of a problem.
01-28-10 | 04:42 AM
#138
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I have said this million times before - toyota's quality in past year has been much better than 5-6 years ago.
In late 90's you had 2 major engine series with major defects that were fixed only by mid-2000s. Those were much bigger quality issues than floormats or gas pedals with no reported stickings. It is just that today Toyota is huge target.
In late 90's you had 2 major engine series with major defects that were fixed only by mid-2000s. Those were much bigger quality issues than floormats or gas pedals with no reported stickings. It is just that today Toyota is huge target.
The quality problems that Toyota continues to deal with right now are *because of* decisions made 6 or 7 years ago by Toyota management, decisions that were made in the name of global expansion and which are backfiring on them now.
01-28-10 | 04:46 AM
#139
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Southeastern PA
Oh--I agree. But what the hell do you do? Toyota says millions of cars are potentially impacted, to the extent that they won't put any NEW ones out on the street, but won't do anything for those who have one now. It's not a Lemon Law issue--but a lawyer who specializes in Lemon Law cases may have the best knowledge base of the law and the auto industry to come up with something to force Toyota's hands to do something for all these people that they have just scared not to drive the car. My friend's wife won't drive her new car now, and won't let him take the kids anywhere in it.
01-28-10 | 04:53 AM
#140
Oh--I agree. But what the hell do you do? Toyota says millions of cars are potentially impacted, to the extent that they won't put any NEW ones out on the street, but won't do anything for those who have one now. It's not a Lemon Law issue--but a lawyer who specializes in Lemon Law cases may have the best knowledge base of the law and the auto industry to come up with something to force Toyota's hands to do something for all these people that they have just scared not to drive the car. My friend's wife won't drive her new car now, and won't let him take the kids anywhere in it.
Tex,no doubt is a bad situation.
Biatch enough and maybe Toyota will give him a rental.
I think people are overreacting.It's not like we're reading of 100's of accidents a week.It'a very,very rare problem.Most with vehicles with 35K or more miles.
I've told my relatives and friends who drive Toyota's to put the car in neutral if they have a problem.
Last edited by Joeb427; 01-28-10 at 05:06 AM.
01-28-10 | 05:12 AM
#141
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Obviously Toyota's quality in the past year has been better than in the last 5-6 years, because there has been intense pressure within the company on Watanabe to change things. Also Akio Toyoda has been president now for half a year, and even before he became president he influenced some changes to be made at Toyota. It was not just him of course, his father the honorary chairman also exerted great influence for changes to be made.
The quality problems that Toyota continues to deal with right now are *because of* decisions made 6 or 7 years ago by Toyota management, decisions that were made in the name of global expansion and which are backfiring on them now.
The quality problems that Toyota continues to deal with right now are *because of* decisions made 6 or 7 years ago by Toyota management, decisions that were made in the name of global expansion and which are backfiring on them now.
Only thing that made these non-issues is that Toyota handles quality issues well... warranties were extended, and even afterwards Toyota paid portion of costs, gave loaners, etc, etc.
So not sure about those 6-7 years... I believe things started getting better mid 2000's... Now you do not have an problematic Toyota engine on the market... something that could not have been said in past decade or so. (i am talking about Toyota here, not other manufacturers, obviously others have even more issues if they still ranked under Toyota).
I see it as karma - they did not get punished when quality did go down (i believe 2004 was worst year for Toyota Corp when it comes to Warranty, 2005 saw recover and 2006 was better than 2005)... and hopefully it will make company better in the future where its quality standards are measured by something other than its peers. Now quality is recovering (i mean mechanical reliability not plastics) and then they get hit with this.
01-28-10 | 05:27 AM
#142
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,144
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From: Southeastern PA
Tex,no doubt is a bad situation.
Biatch enough and maybe Toyota will give him a rental.
I think people are overreacting.It's not like we're reading of 100's of accidents a week.It'a very,very rare problem.Most with vehicles with 35K or more miles.
I've told my relatives and friends who drive Toyota's to put the car in neutral if they have a problem.
Biatch enough and maybe Toyota will give him a rental.
I think people are overreacting.It's not like we're reading of 100's of accidents a week.It'a very,very rare problem.Most with vehicles with 35K or more miles.
I've told my relatives and friends who drive Toyota's to put the car in neutral if they have a problem.
It's obviously not an epidemic. But it is serious, with stories of people who have died.
While it is true that putting the car in neutral will solve the problem, it's much much easier to say that while typing on CL than when you are suddenly in a really scary situation. The same way that it's real easy to scream at the person on Jeopardy that gives a stupid answer because you don't have the pressure of being right there. The point has been made here that in the ES350 crash in Cali last year, which supposedly was caused by the floor mats, the car was being driven by a cop--they had enough time to call 911 and have a conversation for at least 30-45 seconds. If a cop, with a minute or more of reaction time, can't flip the car into neutral and stop it, I am not going to assume that I will have the presence of mind to do it--even though it seems pretty simple.
01-28-10 | 05:35 AM
#143
It's obviously not an epidemic. But it is serious, with stories of people who have died.
While it is true that putting the car in neutral will solve the problem, it's much much easier to say that while typing on CL than when you are suddenly in a really scary situation. It's real easy to scream at the person on Jeopardy that gives a stupid answer because you don't have the pressure of being right there. The point has been made here that in the ES350 crash in Cali last year, which supposedly was caused by the floor mats, the car was being driven by a cop--they had enough time to call 911 and have a conversation for at least 30-45 seconds. If a cop, with a minute or more of reaction time, can't flip the car into neutral and stop it, I am not going to assume that I will have the presence of mind to do it--even though it seems pretty simple.
While it is true that putting the car in neutral will solve the problem, it's much much easier to say that while typing on CL than when you are suddenly in a really scary situation. It's real easy to scream at the person on Jeopardy that gives a stupid answer because you don't have the pressure of being right there. The point has been made here that in the ES350 crash in Cali last year, which supposedly was caused by the floor mats, the car was being driven by a cop--they had enough time to call 911 and have a conversation for at least 30-45 seconds. If a cop, with a minute or more of reaction time, can't flip the car into neutral and stop it, I am not going to assume that I will have the presence of mind to do it--even though it seems pretty simple.
There is a fix that will be done.
The ES cop situation was unfortunate but being a cop,he should have been able to handle that emergency situation by putting the car in neutral.
Before the incident most people didn't know about putting the car in nuetral.
Just about every Toyota owner is now aware of shiffing into nuetral..Whether they do it in a panic situation is another story but they know what to do.
01-28-10 | 05:48 AM
#144
Toyota is the new GM in terms of experiencing quality glitches, overexpansion and the proliferation of new product models,” said Dennis Virag, president of Automotive Consulting Group.
“Toyota has been too aggressive and perhaps complacent in terms of focus on quality. They can't concentrate on the details with so many models.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1447164/
“Toyota has been too aggressive and perhaps complacent in terms of focus on quality. They can't concentrate on the details with so many models.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1447164/
01-28-10 | 06:16 AM
#145
Desperation is kicking in.. There is a dealer in Manahattan that was caught lying to consumers about the Toyota models involved in the recall. CBS2 news had an undercover camera which captured a Toyota salesman telling the reporter posing as a customer that "the recall only affects older Toyota models & not the new models here in the showroom".. I will look for the story & vid on the net..
01-28-10 | 06:27 AM
#146
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,591
Likes: 88
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
This appeared to be a major issue at the D.C. Auto Show yesterday. Attendance at the Toyota display seemed to be down, compared to past years. Toyota resorted, for the first time in my memory, to dancing girls, music, and an entertainment routine to try and get attention at the Sienna turntable, even though (according to them) the sales-freeze didn't affect the Sienna. Still, it was noticeable in that I've never seen this done at Toyota before.....usually, that is a Ford/Chevy routine. Toyota reps seemed reluctant to discuss the freeze (and the recall campaigns), except for the usual "Oh, it'll be over in a few days" routine.
01-28-10 | 06:29 AM
#147
Toyota is the new GM in terms of experiencing quality glitches, overexpansion and the proliferation of new product models,” said Dennis Virag, president of Automotive Consulting Group.
“Toyota has been too aggressive and perhaps complacent in terms of focus on quality. They can't concentrate on the details with so many models.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1447164/
“Toyota has been too aggressive and perhaps complacent in terms of focus on quality. They can't concentrate on the details with so many models.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1447164/
01-28-10 | 06:36 AM
#148
Toyota's quality was dropping a bit and then CEO Katsuaki Watanabe really killed quality and caused what we have today..
01-28-10 | 06:42 AM
#149
My say on all of this....
First this is MY OPINION on all of this mess....
I am sad to say that ever since Toyota decided to produce some of their vehicles here in the states and the sourcing of NON JDM parts has clearly been the biggest problem for Toyota....everything went down hill ever since!!
Think about this for a minute.....Rusted frames = NON JDM parts, Pedal issues = NON JDM parts etc.....etc....
Toyota was great when it had nothing to do with the states and that is the bottom line. We all went non domestic for clear reasons so why would Toyota trust domestic parts and labor??? Here in the US we just dont have the pride anymore.
I am sad to say that ever since Toyota decided to produce some of their vehicles here in the states and the sourcing of NON JDM parts has clearly been the biggest problem for Toyota....everything went down hill ever since!!
Think about this for a minute.....Rusted frames = NON JDM parts, Pedal issues = NON JDM parts etc.....etc....
Toyota was great when it had nothing to do with the states and that is the bottom line. We all went non domestic for clear reasons so why would Toyota trust domestic parts and labor??? Here in the US we just dont have the pride anymore.
Last edited by 5gears-IS; 01-28-10 at 07:10 AM.
01-28-10 | 06:43 AM
#150
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Joined: Jan 2005
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The Wall Street Journal claims Toyota first noticed problems with accelerator pedals in March 2007 in the Tundra pick-up. The problem surfaced again in the December 2008, where faults were discovered in right-hand drive Yaris and Aygo models, both of which are a common sight on UK roads.
The Journal also said a Toyota investigation found condensation from the affected models' heaters had caused friction in the accelerator pedals causing them to stick. From August 2009, Toyota fixed this problem in Europe by lengthening the arm of the friction lever and changing materials on all affected models.
...
"A running change in production using different parts has already been implemented model-by-model in the European production. Therefore there is no need or intention to stop production in Europe.
The Journal also said a Toyota investigation found condensation from the affected models' heaters had caused friction in the accelerator pedals causing them to stick. From August 2009, Toyota fixed this problem in Europe by lengthening the arm of the friction lever and changing materials on all affected models.
...
"A running change in production using different parts has already been implemented model-by-model in the European production. Therefore there is no need or intention to stop production in Europe.
more info about the problem..