mmarshall

At the D.C. Auto Show today, Fiat had two 500 models (a white base 500 and a black Abarth) up on a turntable, stuck off in a far corner of the Dodge display (Fiat, of course, now being Chrysler's primary owner). A third 500.....an all-electric concept model......was up on another turntable, in the alternate-fuel portion of the show, which was some distance away from the Dodge display. No official Fiat reps seemed to be present, and when I asked the ladies working the Dodge display, they were rather tight-lipped about the possibilities of the 500 coming here, though they mentioned that (maybe) we would see it in the fall, for the 2011 model year. Same with the electric 500...the lady announcing it said it was a concept; not yet ready for production, and we likewise (may) see it for 2011.

These were the first lower-priced Italian-designed cars I've seen at the D.C. show since Alfa Romeo left in 1995, and the first Fiats since the mid-1980's.....roughly a decade before that. I don't have a digital camera, but posted look-alike google images.


Many of us, of course, have vivid memories of the awful Fiats of decades ago, but these cars looked rather decent as far as fit/finish was concerned, though I could only get a very limited inspection of them....and the materials they used.

Fiat, of course, has also mentioned the possibility of selling rebadged 500s as entry-level, subcompact Dodge vehicles.

TripleL

Would be interesting to see if it does come here whether it would be a Fiat or a rebadge to Dodge or Chrysler. I could really see it going either way.

I've never seen one of these in person, size wise would you say it's about the size of a Mini Cooper?

darkdream

they actually look pretty sleek for that size of car

mmarshall

Yes, but either way, however, Fiat has GOT to get the quality right this time.
Not only did the flimsy, poorly-built Fiats of the past turn off many Americans, but so has the sub-standard quality of many Chrysler products built since then. Right offhand, as I mentioned above, the fit/finish of the displayed 500 models looked pretty good (or at least OK), but, because of the nature of the display, I wasn't able to inspect them very well.


I'd say it's roughly the size of the Mini-Cooper Clubman (slightly longer than the standard Cooper), though somewhat taller and bulkier-looking. It is much larger than the traditional tiny Fiat 500 "Topolinos" of decades ago.

IS-SV

I posted earlier details showing that the Fiat 500 is considerably smaller and lighter than the Mini.

The standard Mini and the Fiat 500 seem similar in size and are significantly different in weight. The Mini is over 600 pounds or 30% heavier than the Fiat.

Mini is 6 inches longer, 2 inches wider, with a 7 inch longer wheelbase, so the size difference does help explain the weight difference.



Fiat returning to the US market possibly certainly is an interesting topic. I remember Fiat very well from the good old days (having driven several), and 2 family members/friends owned Fiats and had reasonably good experiences similar to other European brands.

<VENOM>

looks pretty sweet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpAFi9nIJVQ

mmarshall

I looked at both the Mini and the 500 yesterday, though I didn't get a chance to directly compare them side-by-side (the 500s were on a turntable, so I couldn't inspect them closely). The Mini did seem to have a longer wheelbase (especially the longer Mini Clubman), but, overall, looked less-bulky and not as tall. But, since you actually posted the specs/dimensions, I'll take your word for it for most of the data. Still, 600 lbs. seems like a LOT of extra weight for cars this small.....was it in pounds, or kilograms? It makes a difference. Fiat gives their weight specs in KGs, because the U.S. is generally the only country that still uses pounds.

The Clubman, of course, is heavier than the standard-size Mini, as are the Cooper S and John Works versions.


Fiat is where the term "Fix it Again, Tony" originated, similiar to the old one, decades ago, for Ford (in the days we grew up)...."Fix or Repair Daily". I'm glad your relatives and friends was spared some of the worst of those experiences. Too many people weren't.

Did you get to see any 500s, BTW, at the San Jose or San Francisco shows?

IS-SV

Yes, the weight difference was comparable (in pounds), the Mini for the American market is a very substantial small car and the size difference combined with American engine choices and safety equipment could easily cause a 600 pound difference. The weight difference depending on sources could range 450-600 pounds. Obviously appearances can be deceiving.

I do not recall seeing the 500's at recent SF or SJ shows, but it could be I just missed it.

Big Andy

Having owned a MINI Cooper and now have a FIAT 500 for my wife (identical to the first picture btw) I can confirm that although the 500 is a bit shorter it actually has more interior room than the MINI and will seat 4 in reasonable comfort, whilst the MINI remains a 2+2 or, at best a 3+1. The boot (trunk) is also bigger on the 500. You sit a bit higher in the 500 and the driving position is less sporty, hence it's slightly taller in profile.

Haitwun

Weren't they also going to sell a Lancia Delta as a rebadged Chrysler?

mmarshall

Possibly. I can't give you a definite answer on that on right now. Fiat and its Italian subsidiaries have mentioned several possibilities for rebadged Chrysler products.......I haven't kept track of them all. I'm going back to the D.C. show again this afternoon for a second time (It's nice to have free show passes....and I'll probably do one more as well), and I'll try and bring that question up.

Danimal

They had a regular 500 at the MotoGP this year in Indy. Everyone was looking at me like I was crazy, but I was all over that thing. It's really a neat little car. I'll be excited to see if they sell the Abarth here. Not that I can afford a new car or anything, but still.

mmarshall

I asked about that today at the D.C. Auto Show. The Chrysler people said that a Chrysler-Lancia Delta concept was indeed developed, but that management hasn't given the green light yet for further development or production (they did not have that concept car on display at the D.C. show here either...apparantly it was reserved for the Detroit Show).

Though there were no official Fiat reps there to confirm it, the Chrysler people DID say, however, that an Electric Fiat 500 would go on sale, in the American market, later this year...it will, of course, join the all-electric Mitsubishi and Nissan models also slated for the U.S. market later this year. The conventional, gas-powered 500s will be introduced here next year, for 2011.

Three versions of the 500, by the way (base, electric, and Abarth) were on display at the show, but, up on a turntable, where I could not inspect them very thoroughly. Another version, the 500C (convertible), with a fold-back roof, is also available overseas, but they were mum on its chances of coming here.

Och

iTrader: (3)

You know what I have always wondered? How the hell did companies like Fiat, Lancia, Renault, Pigeout and Citroen survive? They were always as awful, if not worse, than British auto makers, and the British automakers failed hard, but these Italian and French makers not only survived but also you have Fiat taking over Chrysler, Renault taking over Nissan, so they are doing great. How did that happen?

Big Andy

It's called home market loyalty to national brands and massive State subsidies.