Car & Driver's Take on Lexus ( Has Lexus lost its way merge)
02-01-10, 03:42 PM
#62
Driver
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: OH
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just read the article and don't understand what all of the fuss is about. The writer gives Toyota/Lexus credit for many of the things they've done and accomplished and then just goes on to give his opinion of what he thinks they need to do. Much like we all do on forums like this. It certainly didn't make me want to run the mag through the shredder.
As an aside, I too have been a long time subscriber of C&D but just not feeling these new guys and what they are doing to the mag...did they just lower the target demographic by 20 yrs?....
02-01-10, 09:08 PM
#63
Lexus Champion
^ now in an ideal situation, should ad/marketing dollars spent for said car magazine translate into how liked a car company is by the said magazine's editorial staff?
because if that's the case, these magazines should HATE ferrari, lamborghini, and many other niche-market car manufacturers.
also - and imo, readers should NOT be victims of editorial bias, simply because a car company axes its ad/marketing budget for certain car publications. it's not only unfair to the car manufacturer and magazine subscribers, but it also muddles the reputation of said car magazine as an "objective, unbiased" source for information.
because if that's the case, these magazines should HATE ferrari, lamborghini, and many other niche-market car manufacturers.
also - and imo, readers should NOT be victims of editorial bias, simply because a car company axes its ad/marketing budget for certain car publications. it's not only unfair to the car manufacturer and magazine subscribers, but it also muddles the reputation of said car magazine as an "objective, unbiased" source for information.
Now obviously the logic doesn't apply to the exotic marque names, i dont think I need to explain why. I've seen the transition from happy go lucky to other name calling water cooler talk that usually starts at the sales meetings and filters to the editorial staff thru everyday small talk... I dont think the sales staff ever sits down and tells its editors so don't get me wrong, its not a "hey since so and so pulled out lets bash on them"... but what I've seen is a more subtle change of attitude towards certain vendors that results in editorial work not looking into that brands best interest anymore.... They probably don't even realize it but it happens, for sure.
02-01-10, 09:15 PM
#64
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ca
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I start seeing my friends attending track days like the BMW M club or Porsche club events then I'll take Lexus serious as a threat. Until then its just a cushy Toyota with a flashship supercar no one will ever form a cult following on like an NSX because of its outrageous price.
02-01-10, 09:19 PM
#65
Lexus Champion
It's so easy to associate Lexus with Toyota and historically the brand is a relatively play it safe family of vehicles. Toyota is known for its more outstanding dominance of hybrids, family sedans, trucks, and vans. The editor just took his gloves off and maybe doesn't care much for Lexus's attempt to break the mold for a more sportier face lift. In the end for Lexus to succeed in this revamp, longevity is the only plausible course of action. In the end I believe Lexus will do what it always do and just produce great cars that do more for the most drivers in that market, over time C&D will be on Lexus's nuts and some other forum will be *****ing about Lexus biased editorials.
02-03-10, 12:31 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
I just read the article and don't understand what all of the fuss is about. The writer gives Toyota/Lexus credit for many of the things they've done and accomplished and then just goes on to give his opinion of what he thinks they need to do. Much like we all do on forums like this. It certainly didn't make me want to run the mag through the shredder.
Most people won't even bother to read the whole article.
02-03-10, 12:35 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
I actually read the entire article on Lexus last night and have to say the guy was absolutely being harsh. He kept saying that Lexus is going wayward with the new LFA and ISF. My take on the situation is that they are trying to appeal to enthusiasts and the younger buyers. The geriatric population that dominates Lexus' customer base is going to fade and lexus will be needing a nice infusion of younger customers that they can make loyal......like me
02-07-10, 09:08 AM
#68
Has Lexus Lost It's Way?
I just read the editorial from Eddie Alterman in the latest Car and Driver mag.
It suggests that Lexus is making a mistakes chasing BMW and others with high performance cars. Eddie says Lexus became the best selling luxury maker by sticking to a formula that proved successful (which is correct). The article suggests that nothing positive can come from changing that formula, especially when part of the reason is to chase someone else's niche.
As much as I enjoy performance I may have to agree. I'm happy buying ultra reliable, sport luxury...with emphasis on luxury Lexus cars and then adding the amount of performance I want on my own.
Here's where I don't agree. As long as Lexus continues to make their cars luxurious and reliable, I see nothing wrong with dialing in sport in some of the models. Benz tried to make luxurious, high performance cars and reliabilty suffered. Lexus just needs to remember what got it here and continue.
Already we see signs the reliability is fading. Several recalls have revealed there is a kink in the armor. But I haven't had any issues with my cars. The brake dust issue was a pest but the brakes were strong and reliable. I don't count that. The fuel rail didn't apply to the 07 but I did have it done on the 06. I guess I'm saying I'm happy with my reliable GS cars that have been lowered and rimmed to provide the performance addition to the luxury Lexus dials in from birth.
But are the LFA and ISF taking Lexus to the land of reduced sales? What do you all think?
It suggests that Lexus is making a mistakes chasing BMW and others with high performance cars. Eddie says Lexus became the best selling luxury maker by sticking to a formula that proved successful (which is correct). The article suggests that nothing positive can come from changing that formula, especially when part of the reason is to chase someone else's niche.
As much as I enjoy performance I may have to agree. I'm happy buying ultra reliable, sport luxury...with emphasis on luxury Lexus cars and then adding the amount of performance I want on my own.
Here's where I don't agree. As long as Lexus continues to make their cars luxurious and reliable, I see nothing wrong with dialing in sport in some of the models. Benz tried to make luxurious, high performance cars and reliabilty suffered. Lexus just needs to remember what got it here and continue.
Already we see signs the reliability is fading. Several recalls have revealed there is a kink in the armor. But I haven't had any issues with my cars. The brake dust issue was a pest but the brakes were strong and reliable. I don't count that. The fuel rail didn't apply to the 07 but I did have it done on the 06. I guess I'm saying I'm happy with my reliable GS cars that have been lowered and rimmed to provide the performance addition to the luxury Lexus dials in from birth.
But are the LFA and ISF taking Lexus to the land of reduced sales? What do you all think?
02-07-10, 09:23 AM
#70
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No matter what Lexus do these magazines will continue to disrespect Lexus. if lexus stick with lexus formula you get - 'boring', 'where is the performance', 'no soul' comments. if lexus deliver performance you get - 'stick with old formula' 'don't chase BMW'.
all of them are BMW homers. i say @#$@#$@ them and just keep making better cars. right now, next gen GS is the key. GS cannot afford to flop.
all of them are BMW homers. i say @#$@#$@ them and just keep making better cars. right now, next gen GS is the key. GS cannot afford to flop.
02-07-10, 09:32 AM
#71
Lexus is the best selling luxury car in the US but not in Europe. When you read European reviews like Top Gear, it is clear that Lexus needs more performance dna to compete in Europe.
Lexus already makes a better Benz than Benz. The question is whether they can create performance variants that out BMW BMW.
I think they can, and the evidence is clear: The Lexus LS460 Sport. This car drives like a BMW 7 series. If they launched sport variants like that of every model they sell, they would do even better, and if they made those sport models the standard offer in Europe, they may be able to take the Global #1 spot.
It's not just me who has glowing praise for the LS460 Sport. This is a conclusion quote from Automobile Magazine's review of the LS460 sport in November:
Lexus already makes a better Benz than Benz. The question is whether they can create performance variants that out BMW BMW.
I think they can, and the evidence is clear: The Lexus LS460 Sport. This car drives like a BMW 7 series. If they launched sport variants like that of every model they sell, they would do even better, and if they made those sport models the standard offer in Europe, they may be able to take the Global #1 spot.
It's not just me who has glowing praise for the LS460 Sport. This is a conclusion quote from Automobile Magazine's review of the LS460 sport in November:
Even though there is no extra power to indulge, the LS 460 Sport makes the best of what it's got. A previously geriatric sedan is finally alive with youthful vigor and enthusiasm for twisty roads. Those who experience euphoria for extended periods should consult their therapist to make sure that their libidos can handle such stimulation. Common side effects are wider eyes, a burning desire to take the long way home, and recurrent wallet pain related to speeding citations.
Lexus has revealed an inner self we never knew existed. The LS platform has the moxie to handle much more power, speed, and throttle pressure. This toe dipped in sport sedan water needs to be followed by dive into the deep end of the shark infested pool. Our crystal ball clearly shows a LS-F 500 flagship sedan powered by a tuned-up 5.0-liter V-8 borrowed from the 600hL. A six-month massage by the motorsports department would do nicely for this future model. A sub-$100,000 price tag would make this addition to the Lexus family the perfect playmate for the coming LF-A super car
Automobile Magazine, November 2009
Lexus has revealed an inner self we never knew existed. The LS platform has the moxie to handle much more power, speed, and throttle pressure. This toe dipped in sport sedan water needs to be followed by dive into the deep end of the shark infested pool. Our crystal ball clearly shows a LS-F 500 flagship sedan powered by a tuned-up 5.0-liter V-8 borrowed from the 600hL. A six-month massage by the motorsports department would do nicely for this future model. A sub-$100,000 price tag would make this addition to the Lexus family the perfect playmate for the coming LF-A super car
Automobile Magazine, November 2009
02-07-10, 10:15 AM
#73
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIchigan
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It suggests that Lexus is making a mistakes chasing BMW and others with high performance cars. Eddie says Lexus became the best selling luxury maker by sticking to a formula that proved successful (which is correct). The article suggests that nothing positive can come from changing that formula, especially when part of the reason is to chase someone else's niche.
This all changed when Lexus came up with this L-Finese garbage, now they are all concerned about their image because of f-sport cars....I agree with Car and Driver that nothing positive can come out of their chase for performance, the LF-A is nice but there are cars that equal or excel the LF-A performance for considerably less money.
Lexus has to stick to making very high quality luxury cars,...When you drive a BMW, you drive a BMW, when you get into an Audi, you feel like you are in an Audi and same thing goes for Mercedes....
Last edited by pagemaster; 02-07-10 at 10:23 AM.
02-07-10, 10:17 AM
#74
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIchigan
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-07-10, 10:30 AM
#75
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lexus doesn't sell well in Europe because they don't give Europeans what they want. Lexus are first of all considered gas-guzzlers in Europe and this is true save for the IS220d and RX450h. Furthermore, Lexus has no brand prestige or heritage Europeans can associate with the brand. Everyone knows the history of Mercedes or BMW, but Lexus (what is that)? Americans tend to want the best deal - but Europeans want substance in the brand in the form of brand prestige. It's important in Europe for a luxury brand, this much I know.
There are also many factors hurting Lexus sales in Europe. Unlike the US, loyal Toyota customers here don't automatically wander next door to a Lexus dealer - they consider a German/European luxury product if they're financially capable of purchasing one.
The lack of sport models is not hurting Lexus in Europe. It's the simple lack of appeal that is preventing their success in this particular market. If you're well-off and want a car from a premium brand, your first consideration is usually one of the top three Germans (Audi, Benz and BMW) followed perhaps by Jaguar or a Lancia or even a top trim variant of the Skoda Superb or Citroen C5. Cadillac and Lexus are not really top considerations as far as I know. These were the results from a survey conducted by Autobild a few months ago. Let me check if I still have this magazine lying around my place.
Sadly, Lexus doesn't seem to understand its situation in Europe. I'm not an expert on the subject, nor do I claim to be one, but simple observations do count for something, right? I don't have much faith in the Lexus LF-Ch concept for the sole reason that it, and somebody correct me if I am wrong, is designed to compete with the BMW 130i hatch. Lexus is gunning for the top model again. The 130i sells in such pitiful numbers in Europe. What Lexus needs to do is target the realistic models: the 118i or 120i and the diesels because those are the cars that sell well.
I think they can, and the evidence is clear: The Lexus LS460 Sport. This car drives like a BMW 7 series. If they launched sport variants like that of every model they sell, they would do even better, and if they made those sport models the standard offer in Europe, they may be able to take the Global #1 spot.
Very few people actually look for "sport" in automobiles. When you look at the best-selling cars in Europe they're normal cars, not sport models. The Golf is the best-selling Volkswagen in Germany for example. The models that make up its numbers are normal diesels and gasoline variants. The sales numbers of the GTI and R models are extremely small, hardly a figure in the total Golf sales. Aside from that, the normal Golf, say a base model diesel, already drives in a sporty fashion and handles well enough, too.
In many markets outside of the US, brand prestige and reputation are an important factor in the luxury car market. It's safe to say that Lexus, being a young brand, doesn't quite have the brand prestige of its European rivals as well as the reputation. This will probably change over time, though.