Car & Driver's Take on Lexus ( Has Lexus lost its way merge)
01-29-10, 06:17 AM
#17
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I honestly hope Lexus executives read that horribly thought out and unfounded article and bring more sports vehicles to production.
Funny he brings up the HS 250h and LFA. I just rode in the LFA and I had a HS loaner for a few days. I never felt any confusion.
Again all I saw was excellence. Lexus makes some of the best hybrids, they now make one of the best exotics.
The them is "Excellence".
I am sure with the recent Toyota news and now this moronic rant, the internetz are going to have a field day.
01-29-10, 07:29 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
I've said that over and over.
Yall know my disdain for C&D and I gladly get it for free. Makes great toilet paper for goats.
Eddie Alterman was the editor for the online site "Motive" and went to C&D b/c they are in desperate need of "change" and we see how well that is working.
(goes to check mail from the last 2 days..oh snap C&D is here in the trash stash, reads article.....)
Eddie Alterman has done nothing to get me to buy the magazine. What I do see is the same **** poor writing, rants, conclusions but a cuter chart here and there and pictures actually focused. His editorial is not on the site but trust me, for some odd reason, CAR AND DRIVER supposedly a magazine that puts sport over everything else is upset b/c Lexus has an IS-F and LFA.
Eddie if you are reading this.
Eddie you are a sad enthusiast.
Yall know my disdain for C&D and I gladly get it for free. Makes great toilet paper for goats.
Eddie Alterman was the editor for the online site "Motive" and went to C&D b/c they are in desperate need of "change" and we see how well that is working.
(goes to check mail from the last 2 days..oh snap C&D is here in the trash stash, reads article.....)
Eddie Alterman has done nothing to get me to buy the magazine. What I do see is the same **** poor writing, rants, conclusions but a cuter chart here and there and pictures actually focused. His editorial is not on the site but trust me, for some odd reason, CAR AND DRIVER supposedly a magazine that puts sport over everything else is upset b/c Lexus has an IS-F and LFA.
Eddie if you are reading this.
Eddie you are a sad enthusiast.
01-29-10, 07:40 AM
#21
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Well, at C&D, it's clear you don't like Alterman (and I, for one didn't like the late Brock Yates, who I thought was an airhead), but what do you think of Patrick Bedard, John Phillips, and the recent Csaba Csede (before he retired)? They all strike me as good, credible automotive journalists.
I had no issues with Alterman until this ridiculous piece aimed at dinasaurs that hate Lexus and want to see them fail. There are quite a lot of them. The hate Lexus for being successful. Amazing. As a matter of fact on another forum I wished him luck as I was a fan of MOTIVE. I thought they wrote pretty engaging pieces.
In a year C&D remains crappy to me. Same conclusions, same songs, different font. If anything the pics look more EVO/CAR which is great. The data tables have always been an asset. Their scoring system is full of spin.
To be honest Mike, this pushes me to really get on the ball with something....
01-29-10, 08:17 AM
#23
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car and driver is nothing compared to british publication and people there. I lived in London and that's how most people feel about Lexus in general. "No Soul" "No character" "too soft" "not good enough to be bmw or MB" and etc.
01-29-10, 08:24 AM
#24
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I've said that over and over.
Yall know my disdain for C&D and I gladly get it for free. Makes great toilet paper for goats.
Eddie Alterman was the editor for the online site "Motive" and went to C&D b/c they are in desperate need of "change" and we see how well that is working.
(goes to check mail from the last 2 days..oh snap C&D is here in the trash stash, reads article.....)
Eddie Alterman has done nothing to get me to buy the magazine. What I do see is the same **** poor writing, rants, conclusions but a cuter chart here and there and pictures actually focused. His editorial is not on the site but trust me, for some odd reason, CAR AND DRIVER supposedly a magazine that puts sport over everything else is upset b/c Lexus has an IS-F and LFA.
Eddie if you are reading this.
Eddie you are a sad enthusiast. You do realize, BMW, Benz, Audi can also be accused of "confusing" lineups, more so than Lexus. Since you only care to rant on Lexus and didn't bother to look outside our coastline, lets review-
Audi has/had A2/A3 all the way to the R8/R10. I don't see you are anyone complaining about them. They have 100hp diesels and 450hp S6 cars. They had a RS4 sitting right along a FWD 1.4 liter A4. Did you complain about it? It is called catering to the market. Audi will have hybrids soon. Is that confusing? Is a 120hp A3 convertible next to a 500hp R8 confusing?
BMW has the 1 series 3 door hatch, tiny diesels and is the "sportiest" luxury brand. Look Eddie, slapping grills on cars and adding a Hoffmeister kink does not mean "continuity" it can also be interpreted as pretty boring. Then this "sportiest" brand has nothing to fight the R8/R10 let alone the LFA. Shouldn't you be bishing and crying about that? How can Lexus have an exotic before BMW?
Benz has everything from the A, B class to C-class hatchback to an entire AMG lineup, to the new SLS. Is there confusion? Are you bishing that Benz sells cute 80hp cars but also sells 600hp monsters? They now offer hybrids too. Are you confused?
What kind of ENTHUSIAST complains about a 416hp V-8, brembo brake, BBS wheel, 5.0 liter, sport sedan? Then I ask you what ENTHUSIAST complains about a 552hp, V-10, brembo brake, BBS wheel, exotic? What kind of person COMPLAINS about that? Every year, C&D complains Lexus needs more sport. It is finally truly provided and in the LFA, in a way only exotic brands can meet/beat. You complain?
I ask again? What kind of enthusiast, let alone an editor of the supposed magazine where "DRIVING" matters, complains about SPORTY DRIVING cars?
FYI, Lexus went after BMW with the GS 400. Since you just hate Lexus, you didn't even bother to look at your own magazines review. Do you know what it said? I remember because that is when I used to PAY for C&D and it was well worth it. Here is what the magazine that pays your salary said;
"Lexus goes BMW hunting"
This was in 1997, Car and Driver's own words. Long before the IS you said is the first Lexus that went after BMW. There is no review online but wow, here is the GS 400 a 10 best winner in 1998 for being sporty. Did it create confusion then? Nope, until 2005 it was the best selling GS EVER.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...0_2f400_page_9
This no reading thing with you continues..... The LFA is not just in existence b/c of the 599GTB. Actually Lexus mentioned the 430 ....but you don't read. It exists b/c the future is lightweight materials and they invested tens of millions in carbon fiber construction in hopes to trickle it down to other vehicles. Many experts feel whomever masters carbon fiber first and makes it cheap, will win. Did you even read your own employee's Mark Giles review? He gave it very favorable remarks.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
Your diss against the LFA's styling is your silly opinion. For some reason, you seriously dislike a new exotic. Hey bud, we live in a world where seemingly a car company dies every year and regulations are getting tighter and tighter against exotics. So Lexus adds to the field in a dying market and you don't like it? I don't recall one exotic I don't like or could dismiss. Maybe I'm too much of an enthusiast.
You say the BMW X6 has some "2002" magic in it? Did you SERIOUSLY write that?
You recommend Lexus sell more RX type vehicles. Why, so you can bash them? Running out of Lexus to bash since they are making interesting cars?
Let me explain something Eddie. Lexus owners DO NOT NEED all their Lexus vehicles to look the same. They don't need them to all drive the same. They don't WANT them too. The numbers cannot lie, in 10 years, post dot com boom, during the housing boom and in the recession, Lexus is #1 in America. Instead of having their LX 570, LS 460 and then jump to another brand for a sporty sedan they can stay with Lexus. That is called brilliant expansion of your lineup .
Sounds like butthurt. Funny but Lexus has sold well without HAVING to rely on sameness. What did the Germans do? Ditch sameness for differentiation among their vehicles.
You ask what does Lexus stand for. It is simple.
EXCELLENCE.
From boring RXs, to hybrids, to sporty vehicles to the LFA.
I recommend resigning and being the editor for "Woman's World" if your dumbass is going to rant about sports cars in a magazine about sports cars.
Eddie, get past the badge.
It is clear your rant is just that, a rant.
Yall know my disdain for C&D and I gladly get it for free. Makes great toilet paper for goats.
Eddie Alterman was the editor for the online site "Motive" and went to C&D b/c they are in desperate need of "change" and we see how well that is working.
(goes to check mail from the last 2 days..oh snap C&D is here in the trash stash, reads article.....)
Eddie Alterman has done nothing to get me to buy the magazine. What I do see is the same **** poor writing, rants, conclusions but a cuter chart here and there and pictures actually focused. His editorial is not on the site but trust me, for some odd reason, CAR AND DRIVER supposedly a magazine that puts sport over everything else is upset b/c Lexus has an IS-F and LFA.
Eddie if you are reading this.
Eddie you are a sad enthusiast. You do realize, BMW, Benz, Audi can also be accused of "confusing" lineups, more so than Lexus. Since you only care to rant on Lexus and didn't bother to look outside our coastline, lets review-
Audi has/had A2/A3 all the way to the R8/R10. I don't see you are anyone complaining about them. They have 100hp diesels and 450hp S6 cars. They had a RS4 sitting right along a FWD 1.4 liter A4. Did you complain about it? It is called catering to the market. Audi will have hybrids soon. Is that confusing? Is a 120hp A3 convertible next to a 500hp R8 confusing?
BMW has the 1 series 3 door hatch, tiny diesels and is the "sportiest" luxury brand. Look Eddie, slapping grills on cars and adding a Hoffmeister kink does not mean "continuity" it can also be interpreted as pretty boring. Then this "sportiest" brand has nothing to fight the R8/R10 let alone the LFA. Shouldn't you be bishing and crying about that? How can Lexus have an exotic before BMW?
Benz has everything from the A, B class to C-class hatchback to an entire AMG lineup, to the new SLS. Is there confusion? Are you bishing that Benz sells cute 80hp cars but also sells 600hp monsters? They now offer hybrids too. Are you confused?
What kind of ENTHUSIAST complains about a 416hp V-8, brembo brake, BBS wheel, 5.0 liter, sport sedan? Then I ask you what ENTHUSIAST complains about a 552hp, V-10, brembo brake, BBS wheel, exotic? What kind of person COMPLAINS about that? Every year, C&D complains Lexus needs more sport. It is finally truly provided and in the LFA, in a way only exotic brands can meet/beat. You complain?
I ask again? What kind of enthusiast, let alone an editor of the supposed magazine where "DRIVING" matters, complains about SPORTY DRIVING cars?
FYI, Lexus went after BMW with the GS 400. Since you just hate Lexus, you didn't even bother to look at your own magazines review. Do you know what it said? I remember because that is when I used to PAY for C&D and it was well worth it. Here is what the magazine that pays your salary said;
"Lexus goes BMW hunting"
This was in 1997, Car and Driver's own words. Long before the IS you said is the first Lexus that went after BMW. There is no review online but wow, here is the GS 400 a 10 best winner in 1998 for being sporty. Did it create confusion then? Nope, until 2005 it was the best selling GS EVER.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...0_2f400_page_9
This no reading thing with you continues..... The LFA is not just in existence b/c of the 599GTB. Actually Lexus mentioned the 430 ....but you don't read. It exists b/c the future is lightweight materials and they invested tens of millions in carbon fiber construction in hopes to trickle it down to other vehicles. Many experts feel whomever masters carbon fiber first and makes it cheap, will win. Did you even read your own employee's Mark Giles review? He gave it very favorable remarks.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
Your diss against the LFA's styling is your silly opinion. For some reason, you seriously dislike a new exotic. Hey bud, we live in a world where seemingly a car company dies every year and regulations are getting tighter and tighter against exotics. So Lexus adds to the field in a dying market and you don't like it? I don't recall one exotic I don't like or could dismiss. Maybe I'm too much of an enthusiast.
You say the BMW X6 has some "2002" magic in it? Did you SERIOUSLY write that?
You recommend Lexus sell more RX type vehicles. Why, so you can bash them? Running out of Lexus to bash since they are making interesting cars?
Let me explain something Eddie. Lexus owners DO NOT NEED all their Lexus vehicles to look the same. They don't need them to all drive the same. They don't WANT them too. The numbers cannot lie, in 10 years, post dot com boom, during the housing boom and in the recession, Lexus is #1 in America. Instead of having their LX 570, LS 460 and then jump to another brand for a sporty sedan they can stay with Lexus. That is called brilliant expansion of your lineup .
Sounds like butthurt. Funny but Lexus has sold well without HAVING to rely on sameness. What did the Germans do? Ditch sameness for differentiation among their vehicles.
You ask what does Lexus stand for. It is simple.
EXCELLENCE.
From boring RXs, to hybrids, to sporty vehicles to the LFA.
I recommend resigning and being the editor for "Woman's World" if your dumbass is going to rant about sports cars in a magazine about sports cars.
Eddie, get past the badge.
It is clear your rant is just that, a rant.
01-29-10, 08:31 AM
#25
Racer
Man, that article really touches a nerve here. It’s obvious the guy is a little basis b/c Toyota/Lexus has the car industry hybrid dept on lock. But I do see in a small part as far as Toyota/Lexus seem to mimic other luxury car companies. IMO he honestly told the truth when he said it wouldn’t be an IS F without the M3 and C63 AMG because that hasn’t been Lexus objective. But who cares
The LFA truly surprise me and I have no words b/c I don’t talk about things I can’t afford. FYI: Maybach has been out since the 1900’s. A flop hmm maybe but it’s not like America has been flowing with milk and honey for the past 4 to 5 years. Plus that car is for super rich people.
I still can’t fathom why people love Bmw so much b/c the interior looks terrible in my opinion. But I guess I should go test drive a few. Since the handling is so awesome.
The LFA truly surprise me and I have no words b/c I don’t talk about things I can’t afford. FYI: Maybach has been out since the 1900’s. A flop hmm maybe but it’s not like America has been flowing with milk and honey for the past 4 to 5 years. Plus that car is for super rich people.
I still can’t fathom why people love Bmw so much b/c the interior looks terrible in my opinion. But I guess I should go test drive a few. Since the handling is so awesome.
01-29-10, 08:48 AM
#26
Guest
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Man, that article really touches a nerve here. It’s obvious the guy is a little basis b/c Toyota/Lexus has the car industry hybrid dept on lock. But I do see in a small part as far as Toyota/Lexus seem to mimic other luxury car companies. IMO he honestly told the truth when he said it wouldn’t be an IS F without the M3 and C63 AMG because that hasn’t been Lexus objective. But who cares
The LFA truly surprise me and I have no words b/c I don’t talk about things I can’t afford. FYI: Maybach has been out since the 1900’s. A flop hmm maybe but it’s not like America has been flowing with milk and honey for the past 4 to 5 years. Plus that car is for super rich people.
I still can’t fathom why people love Bmw so much b/c the interior looks terrible in my opinion. But I guess I should go test drive a few. Since the handling is so awesome.
The LFA truly surprise me and I have no words b/c I don’t talk about things I can’t afford. FYI: Maybach has been out since the 1900’s. A flop hmm maybe but it’s not like America has been flowing with milk and honey for the past 4 to 5 years. Plus that car is for super rich people.
I still can’t fathom why people love Bmw so much b/c the interior looks terrible in my opinion. But I guess I should go test drive a few. Since the handling is so awesome.
Who does that? Who finds a way to spin and COMPLAIN about a brand making interesting cars. A car EVO gave 5 stars.
Let me review history again since he seemingly is stuck in 2010.
1. M1 was designed to copy/fight other high performance cars while meeting racing regulations.
2. AMG was bought by Benz and they churned out the C32 in 1992 or so. Why? To FIGHT the M3? So is that silly for Benz? HELL NO.
3. Audi as of late got in the game, building past the S models and bringing the RS4 to battle the M3 and C55. Is Audi silly for doing that?
Lexus IS-F wasn't a planned product. It was a skunkworks project. It got approval to be built. So FINALLY there is a Japanese brand in this field. Guess what it doesn't suck, it actually holds its own and more.
And you COMPLAIN about it?
I wonder if the IS-F/LFA were Infinti's or Acuras would he bish? If it was a Hyundai would he cry? Again seems like butthurt. B/C Lexus is bringing heat to the sports arena, a brand not known for it. It seriously just sounds like he can't get past the badge. I see butthurt, the supposed "sporty" brands they have sucked off and loved is really not as interesting as they try to sell it. In contrast they crap on Lexus for being boring and here it is, the sportiest most thrilling and entertaining Japanese brand.
How many times have I said Lexus has always made some sort of sporty entry but they are overshadowed by the ES/RX/LS. Which is understandable as those 3 dominate sales in their class. But Lexus always had the first gen SC, the 2nd gen GS, the IS 300 etc.
I bet if the NSX was built, he wouldn't complain. He wouldn't say Acura,a company mostly FWD, all Accord based pretty much that can't sell a car over 40k now has a 150k NSX, how confusing.
I bet if the Essence was built, he wouldn't complain. He wouldn't say Infiniti, a company that struggles with sales and image now has a 200k Essence.
Again, who the hell complains about sporty cars directed towards enthusiasts? Especially the EDITOR of a magazine CATERING to enthusiasts?
01-29-10, 08:48 AM
#27
I read this article a few days ago when I got the issue and I was thinking about posting a topic but never got around to it. After reading it I realized what a disservice it is to the public to have someone this ignorant writing a column in a relatively well-respected magazine, even if it is an opinion piece. This is such a constrained thought process, that Lexus should not produce sporty cars.
I guess by that notion...
Porsche should drop the Cayenne, despite it being a top seller, and also the Panamera.
BMW should drop the X1, X3, X5, X6, and 5GT, as well as all of their wagons.
Mercedes should drop AMG all together.
Jaguar should be shut down for going in a radical new styling direction, and all of their R models should be dropped.
Cadillac needs to nix all V cars, as well as the CTS because it's too sporty, Escalade variants will all need to be dropped.
Audi needs to drop the R8.
Nissan needs to forget selling the GT-R here in America
Ford should drop their new EcoBoost engines and just keep the Duratech- it got the job done.
Lexus' 8Spd AT is absolutely absurd, as 4ATs worked just as well, right? Same goes for DCTs and SMGs.
Any wheels larger than 15" should be banned- they all do the same thing.
Hybrids are completely useless- the car industry was founded on gasoline and should be based on gasoline only.
Crossovers will all need to cease production right now.
Runflat tires will need to be retired.
Navigation systems are useless since we have had maps for forever
Xenon headlights are unnecessary since traditional ones are up to the task.
.....etc.
"The only thing in life that's constant is change"
I guess by that notion...
Porsche should drop the Cayenne, despite it being a top seller, and also the Panamera.
BMW should drop the X1, X3, X5, X6, and 5GT, as well as all of their wagons.
Mercedes should drop AMG all together.
Jaguar should be shut down for going in a radical new styling direction, and all of their R models should be dropped.
Cadillac needs to nix all V cars, as well as the CTS because it's too sporty, Escalade variants will all need to be dropped.
Audi needs to drop the R8.
Nissan needs to forget selling the GT-R here in America
Ford should drop their new EcoBoost engines and just keep the Duratech- it got the job done.
Lexus' 8Spd AT is absolutely absurd, as 4ATs worked just as well, right? Same goes for DCTs and SMGs.
Any wheels larger than 15" should be banned- they all do the same thing.
Hybrids are completely useless- the car industry was founded on gasoline and should be based on gasoline only.
Crossovers will all need to cease production right now.
Runflat tires will need to be retired.
Navigation systems are useless since we have had maps for forever
Xenon headlights are unnecessary since traditional ones are up to the task.
.....etc.
"The only thing in life that's constant is change"
01-29-10, 10:03 AM
#28
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01-29-10, 10:10 AM
#29
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I'm a new BMW driver and my little 1 series is simply FUN to drive. The combination of precise steering and a sports-biased suspension can make a car really exciting to drive. I must admit that this isn't my regular driving style, but in a BMW you reach new levels of confidence because the car gives this confidence to you: literally.