Lil4X

C/D has changed its image with every succeeding decade. When it was Sports Car Illustrated it was the late '50's age of stringback gloves and MG Mitten. From a small but enthusiastic group of writers, emerged an automotive giant - one that has lost the counterculturalist vibe that was its hallmark for so many years.

Under the tutelage of writers like David E. Davis, LJK Setright, Patrick Bedard, John Phillips, and Csaba Csede, the magazine flourished, largely because they represented an anti-establishment view of the automotive world totally unlike that of Tom Cahill at Popular Mechanics who measured trunkspace for nearly forty years by having himself photographed IN them. Rivals like Road & Track may have been more hot-rod oriented (producing the Dodge R/T models as a thinly-disguised attempt at cross-marketing), and Motor Trend and Autoweek were about as exciting to read as Consumer Reports. More recently, Automobile hit the market with a few C/D castoffs who quickly brought in David E. Davis as mentor and almost re-established the old 60's and 70's rebellion of C/D.

Brock Yates was the bad boy of automotive journalism. His was the impetus for the "Cannonbal Baker Memorial Sea-to-Shining-Sea Memorial Trophy Dash" that was immortalized in a series of horrible attempts at silver screen glory before morphing into a tour of American racetracks. Only C/D in its prime would have funded such craziness as the Pushmepullyou Honda Civic that grafted the front ends of two wrecked Civics together back to back, for a twin-engined Honda. Other classics include Yates' old restored '50's vintage "Eliminator" that combined a '20's vintage chassis with a 90's rebuild of a Chevy small block into a racing legend.



It not only performed well, it actually beat dozens of pedigreed exotics, including Ferraris, Maseratis, etc. on the track. Who but Yates would back something like that?

Dozens of automotive writers owe their style to the early days of C/D, to Davis, Setright, and newer writers on the scene like PJ O'Rourke. The snarky attitude and the brave charge against the automotive establishment has faded in recent years. It's painful for me to even pick up a copy that has dissolved into a group of Teutonic fanboys who are stuck somewhere in a timewarp between middle and old age, prefering snobby comfort to hanging their collective butts over the edge and hauling them back at the last moment.

That's the difference, I suppose, between a bunch of writers and a corporation. C/D's snub of Lexus is a far cry from C/D's days of glory - the dope-smokin' hippie of the Automotive crowd has become an effete snob sipping their Chardonnay, and comparing the leather stitchery on a Lexus to that of a BMW.

primecut

iTrader: (1)

What is the missing intangible that he speaks of? Oh that's right, wonderful trips to the dealership for problems and repairs. My Lexus is quite boring and soulless, but only because it doesn't have flashing warning lights on my dashboard lighting up like a Xmas tree every time I drive it.

On a seriously note, he is correct in saying that there would be no F without M3 or AMG. But it's just fact, and as someone mentioned, simple competition. For him to use it as a diss to Lexus is quite silly.

Is it not contradictory that these magazines focus so much on 0-60 and skid pads and sportiness, and yet when it comes down to it, they resort to using the most subjective opinions to ultimately apply their bias?

teeteetee

I'm curious about the "missing intangibles" as well. I remember they actually had a favorable long term review of the IS F with the only complaint being the harsh ride.

SLegacy99

Lexus builds boring cars and exciting cars. Mercedes builds boring cars and exciting cars. Acura builds boring cars and semi exciting cars. I am not a Lexus loyalist, but I fail to see why this brand is being picked on. Perhaps because they sell the most luxury cars?

madmax2k1

I think Lexus is being picked on because their best sellers are the RX350 and ES350 which are not very competent cars in spite of their stellar sales record in the USA.

Without these 2 cars, Lexus would be just another Acura or Infiniti.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Both are great vehicles.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The RX and ES were designed to be luxurious, smooth, quiet, detailed etc... basically the epitome of what a Lexus is supposed to be. They may not be BMW's and handle well, but they are competent and offer a stress free environment. You don't really take an ES to the track lol

I have to respectively disagree on that. Even without the ES and RX, Lexus would still have a higher volume of sales than Acura and Infiniti. Not to mention they have an impressive array of vehicles offered (luxury, performance, economy etc...). The LS is a supremely hightech flagship one of which neither of those companies have. The IS and GS offer low to high end performance models as well as a convertible and hybrid respectively. The HS is in a league of it's own. LX, GX full size SUV options etc... So saying Lexus would be just another Acura or Infiniti is just plain wrong IMHO. Talk about two brands that have very little diversity.

LOL! Priceless

LexFather

Thanks Hoovey fantastic post. It still would not even be a contest.

Its amazing that people say "Oh if Lexus didn't sell their best selling models" and then try to make some ridiculous point.

So why don't we try the shoe on the other foot. The G37 accounts for 60% of Infiniti sales. That is far more than the RX which is around 40% of Lexus sales. So you take that car out the equation and the brand becomes Saab.

With Acura you take out the TL and MDX and you have what a 3 vehicle lineup. lol

We can say "oh if BMW didn't have the 3 series and X5" and Oh if Benz didn't have the E-class and ML class, yadda yadda yadda.

Simply silly.

madmax2k1

I think you missed the part where I said the ES and RX are not competent relative to the competition in spite of their sale numbers.

The G and 3 series have way better reviews than Lexus's best sellers even on these Lexus forums.

LexFather

That is your opinion and their opinion. You clearly are omitting reviews where the IS beat the "G" ( G4, G6, G8, G-wagon you need to be more specific, everyone has that letter). How is the ES not competent exactly? How is the RX not competent? The RX created the class, created the luxury hybrid and continues to lead. You might not like either, b/c you feel they are boring but they are fantastic in their intended purpose.

We are in this thread talking about an idiotic review (the point of the thread) and you are here using them as leverage? lol

Not sure how to break it to you but hate Lexus all you want, diss it in posts all you want, dismiss it all you want, it is by far the better brand. Its not even close and up for discussion.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

I think we should take a few unbiased rebuttles in this thread (or write new ones) and actually mail it to C&D, let him know that actual readers disagree and if they don't stop this foolishness, people will stop and have stopped reading their publications.

gshb

the only publication i actively support and gladly pay for is top gear. they could review a ****box and i would still enjoy it thanks to their command over the english language. reading c/d is like watching an apple keynote. their vocabulary comprises of 'great' or 'awesome' and the negative forms of the same.

joe80

Lexus to me..


HS - Meh.

ES - a great car. I don't care if it doesn't have a performance. it's quiet, luxurious, and comfy. My mom loves her ES.

IS - i think it's the middle of the pack.

RX - a great entry luxury SUV. don't like the new design though.

GS - not competitive. Lexus desperately needs GS to be competitive. I know there are many GS buyers here, but you gotta admit it is outmatched against germans.

GX - nice big comfy SUV

LX - nice big comfy SUV

LS - definition of a Japanese luxury. i would rock it.

LFA - honestly, i still can't get past the price. I'm sure it's a brilliant supercar.

MR_F1

I actually would not have a problem with either of those notions.


Lexus has a very small lineup in Europe and their image I very different to what it is in the US. Lexus' on fault. They need to better it.

Evo/Car magazines are pretty decent publications IMHO.

1- Not competent cars? They are among the best for the market they serve. They are great at what they were designed to do.

2-With no RX and no ES, Lexus would still have the IS F, LFA, LS, LX, GX, all of which neither Acura nor Infiniti have any competition for.


Soul.

mmarshall

Fine, but the job of an auto writer, journalist, or reviewer is to be objective and/or write up THEIR OWN take on a certain vehicle (or vehicle comparisons), not to try and tell others what they THINK they want to hear. All of us are free to disagree with their conclusions (heck, some people here disagree with my own conclusions in the reviews I myself write), and, if desired, to drop their subcriptions or visiting their web-sites. And, yes, I too disagree with auto-mags sometimes.....I think they often put too much emphasis on speed, handling, braking, and "sport" driving. But, if every auto journalist wrote their articles to please others instead of giving their own opinion, we wouldn't have much credibility in the auto review buisness. Even in the auto mag buisness, the Editors-in-Chief have to give their own writers some leeway.