bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

haha, perception is reality, and mb will take it to the bank!

and the ls600hL is so much better? hardly any faster of better economy than the ls460l, and a HUGE price premium.

bad co

s400 is cheeper then the 550...

RXSF

^^ i was just going to say that. for the 2010 models, the S550 moved up like 3 grand, and then the S400 took its place at 88 thousand

pagemaster

I didn't know that the 550 moved up in price. I think MB's strategy is really good, usually you have to pay a premium over the gas alternative (Lexus likes to do this) and in this case you don't. This is smart on MB's part

RXSF

yes, its cheaper for the hybrid, but lets face it, all they added was a mild hybrid system and a much cheaper 3.5 liter engine instead of a big 5.5 v8. you get less car for the price, but at least more people will buy the hybrid now

pagemaster

You get pretty much the same everything except the engine. That is it, and it is the right logical step up for the S-Class after the Hybrid. 295hp/MPG to 380hp and poor mpg.

Now if you compare the S550 to the LS600h, the S550 gets the same performance for significantly less money, this is why the LS600hl is pointless..... But you can still get a S400hybrid for less money than the S550 and you can save some money as well, the trade off is the performance.

Most people do not care if their hybrid can go extremely fast.

RXSF

but for the price of the hybrid, last year, you could have gotten the 550. lol. but I agree that most likely, people are going to buy the hybrid just so they can get into an S class

pagemaster

Fair enough, but it is not like you have to pay more for the same performance and better MPG like you do with RX, LS and Highlander Hybrids. When you buy the RX, LS and Highlander you have keep it longer to recoup the costs, with the S class, you know you save money right up front

RXSF

but unlike the S400, you get more power with the toyota/lexus hybrids, thus the increased price. lol.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

It'll be the world's first lithium ion in a big luxury car

pagemaster

It is pretty impressive that Mercedes now offers the battery in the hybrid model

S-Class worldwide now offers a 3.5, 3.5 diesel, 4.5 gas, 5.0 gas, 5.5 gas, 6.0 gas, all the AMG stuff and now a hybrid model....impressive line of engines

SLegacy99

Ehhhh, but with the RX, LS, and Highlander hybrids you are getting not only better fuel economy, but also quicker vehicles than the gasoline counterparts. The cheaper S400 is slower than its V8 counterparts, but is it any faster or all that more efficient than say just the 3.5L S Class? I don't know. The S400 makes alot of sense for people who want an S class, but simply don't need the power of the 550. And there are increasing #s of buyers doing just that.

MrBruin09

If I had a choice I would get the S400. I don't think people are going to by the hybrid because they can't afford and extra $3000 for a S550. If you can afford a $87,000 dollar car you can afford a $90,000 one.

Since neither car is extremely fast, I would prefer the mild hybrid with all the goodies of the S550.

Also, the 2010 S class models have a new front and back maybe that is the reason for the price increase. It is the new facelift model.

(Cj)

Pagemaster, I think you're missing the point.

The new V6 hybrid S class competes with the turbo I6 BMW 7 series NOT the LS hybrid. Of course some people will say otherwise but face the facts the LShL has 150 more horsepower. The LShL was made to really showcase Toyota's hybrid technology on the high end and it successfully does that.

FWIW BMW is coming out with an Activehybrid 7 series that will compete directly with the LShL. It'll have 455hp and be $110K. I'm not sure if Mercedes will respond to that, but in reality that's the LSh's true upcoming competitor.

But anyway, as I said in my first post, since all the Germans are coming out with dowmarket V6 flagships, this would be a good time for Lexus to follow with an entry level V6 hybrid in the next gen LS that focuses on efficiency. A 30mpg LS would blow all the competition out of the water.

The next gen LS600hL should be more fine tuned performance-wise to compete with it's V12 competition. For it's price it should use Lithium batteries which lower the weight of the batteries up to 60% and Lexus needs to get 500+hp from the powerplant combined in order for it to effectively take on the 760iL and the S600.

SLegacy99

The 3.5L setup from the RX would do well in many Lexus and Toyota vehicles. I'm not sure that the nomenclature for the RX should have been altered. It should have remained 400h, with a 295 HP GS400h and LS400h joining the ranks and perhaps a detuned ES400h. Thus making room for a GS600h.

Don't forget that Mercedes now has a 3.5L full hybrid in its arsenal with 330ish HP I believe. Also a forced to be reckoned with, though the increased power and the fact that Mercedes V6 engines are mediocre (though improving) when it comes to efficiency means that the ML hybrid is less efficient than the RX450h.