PHXSC

I think toyota now has a difficult problem to solve - not particularly with folks knowledgable, but with John Q Public. As a 2008 Avalon owner, when I shopped for this car I looked at the Accord, briefly at Nissan and Acura. I didn't even go on a Ford or Chevy lot. Having owned several toyota's, I knew the cars were the best investment I could make.

Now, I have a little doubt, mainly because it took them waaay too long to face reality and take action on the gas pedal issue. Basically, they were allowed to ignore it, or at least keep the public in the dark, until a police officer who was trained in motor vehicle operation, and his family, all lost their lives....

The Joun Q Public buyer, who doesn't visit CL to become omnicient, is now far more likely to visit the domestic lots, see a decent product at a decent (or better) price, with a better warranty, and buy. Without debating the details, the general perception damage is done, and will take years to repair. Good thing is a way for Toyota out of this is better warranties, which is good for John Q Public that buys their cars. My $.02 is this is one of the first moves Toyota makes.

pagemaster

S2000 and NSX compete against different segment than the Mr2 and Celica. Well maybe not so much the S2000. When I was reffering to canceling the NSX, I compare it to the upcoming, money losing LFA...completely pointless when they company is losing money and is struggling with quality problems.

Either Land Cruiser or Sequoia for worldwide. END OF STORY. The Sequoia is a dog right now that offers two engines and three different trim levels. They sold 644 units in January.

Land Cruiser can easily support the USA market like they had prior to 2001.

flipside909

Just curious, but did you ever have any issues with your Avalon and it's gas pedal from the first day you owned it?

Secondly, the CHP officer who lost his life was from a totally different car and a totally different issue. It was a loaner ES350 with an incorrect floormat installed in the car. The ES350 is not included in the Toyota recall as it has no issue with a "sticking" gas pedal. Certain Toyota models are affected by the recall, and they are vehicles that are produced in North America ONLY.

Toyota already has addressed the issue publicly and the solution to the problem is being manufactured as we speak. Toyota has one of the best warranties out there. If they really didn't care about this situation, they would have not halted sales OR even go to the extent of tracing where the problem originated. The domestic guys are not off the hook, they have pending issues of their own.

flipside909

It's a gamble that Toyota has taken, but it's the same approach other makes and manufacturers have done historically. The NSX although a classic, is not in the same category as the LFA. You may think it's overpriced, but then again many other exotic cars are as well...think Bugatti and Konigsegg. Toyota can afford to make an investment like this. You got to pay to play.

Options are good. That's what Americans wanted and that's what Toyota produced. Unfortunately times are tough, people are looking to stretch their dollar. Sequoia and the other large SUV's are not in a good position right now.

pagemaster

You are right. Someone at work yesterday who talks nothing about cars made a remark "haha, you drive a Toyota" to me....The damage is down right now and this incident will set Toyota back.

I never thought of the warranties, but I predicted you are going to see a shift in the way Toyota does interiors to help change perceptions. Camry and Corolla as well as Avalon. The number one place a consumer notices quality is the interior....You will see some of the best Toyota interiors in the next few years including an upgrade to the Corolla.

Right now, if the general public sits in a Camry, they will immediately notice the lack of quality.

flipside909

Remember the Explorer and Firestone? That made huge media headlines for a long time. It set Ford back but they bounced right back. Toyota is not going to let this one moment hold them back. They're stronger than you perceive.


Again continuous improvement...Kaizen. That's nothing new for Toyota.

Depending on who you ask, your generalization is a bit biased considering you already have a general perception of Toyota. You can't really speak for the general public but the Camry is (or was) the #1 selling car in America for several consecutive years. If lack of quality was an issue, then you would people springing for that new Chevy Malibu or new Dodge Avenger.

My opinion is going to be very different from yours, but having driven many Camrys throughout the years from the 1st gen to the current 6th gen, including owning a few, there is nothing wrong with the current offering.

LexFather

Wow, that is insightful. You can drive a LFA and some douche will say "hahah, you drive a Toyota". Big deal.

FYI, the NSX lost over 800 million for Honda. The S2000 was a model made solely for their anniversary to be sold only a few years. When they saw demand continued, they continued to build it.

This rant is now all over the place.

Evitzee

Lot's of testosterone and trash talk being thrown around here.

Let's put things in perspective. The car industry is a global business and is probably the most competitive business to be in. There are too many companies with too much production, and every company is trying to grab as much share as possible to lower their unit costs. That's how Henry Ford saw it and that is how the business works. The goal is to produce the best product for the lowest cost, there is no sin in that. The Japanese ate the US auto business by bringing in good quality cars at a competitive price. I owned one of the first Corolla's in the US in the early '70's. The fit 'n finish and overall feel of that sub-$2k car was light years ahead of the AMC Hornet, Plymouth Valiant, or Chevy Nova of the day. I haven't owned a US car since.

The business world always has to juggle quality (perceived and real) with cost. If they don't they go out of business. If Toyota's quality has gone down they will pay for it in market share and profit. They will live and die by that standard. If a customer finds a better car at a better price after juggling quality, reliability, and many other factors of ownership than they will go elsewhere. It's very easy to talk trash and Monday morning quarterback what's good or bad with Toyota. Most of this nonsense with this pedal is a non-issue, yet everyone now wants to put Toyota on the autopsy table like they are dead. Give it up, they will recover from this.

(Cj)

The reason I say the Sequoia should stay is because its $30K cheaper than the LC and I'm sure most families that need a fullsize SUV would find it easier to afford the Sequoia over the Land Cruiser.

Beside that in the US the LC overlaps with the Lexus GX and LX.

PHXSC

To answer flipsides question - my gas pedal is stuck to the floor alot

Seriously, I have not experienced any gas pedal issues, and I KNOW my Avalon is a great car. It's a "limited" edition - their flagship toyota. I have a co-worker with an ES Lexus, and riding in my Avalon, he pointed out several features he didn't expect to see in a toyota (heated and cooled seats for example).

Sometimes you can read misguided intent into the typed word - I'm not a toyota basher by any means. My oldest sons' first car was a solara, and I have the younger one in an Infiniti. I can't say any more than that about how I feel about japanese car manufactuters. I'm merely pointing out that IMHO it took Toyota too long to come forward with the knowledge of the issue, and an example of the damage the entire scenario will have with the general buying public.

I do think there will be a warranty modification by toyota to restore confidence in the product, as this addresses directly the main issue. That is a "soft" buck for them and is very easy to implement.

pagemaster

The last gen Land Cruiser used to be available in basic cloth trimmed form with 3rd rear seats delete etc. Gradually they limited the offerings to leather trimmed nave everything once the Sequoia was introduced.

Big problem now is that the Sequoia is not selling at 60k units per year like it did back in 2001, this is what toyota was aiming for with the 2nd gen redesign and they are paying for it dearly with only 644 units a month right now.

Toyota could easily offer a 4.6 Land Cruiser base model like they do in other countries, heck they could even offer the 4.0 v6 model from UAE markets

dunnojack

i got a better prediction. and it comes from the most trustworthy source- my magic 8 ball.

I shook it, and it said toyota would be bankrupt by 2015.




i do hope they come out with a 12 year 120000 mile powertrain warranty.
that would be awesome

bruce van

I just went on a test drive for a 2010 Prius this afternoon. I'm seriously considering trading in my car for something more fuel efficient and as strange as it may sound, I like the looks of the quirky car.

I took quite some time going over the car and found the build quality and use of plastics very good. Sure they could have used higher quality plastics just like every other Mfg. out there, but that's how all cars in this price range are made. I don't want to turn this thread into a Prius review; just wanted to share since we're on the topic.

What did suck was the buying experience. They had a brand new salesman working and he had absolutely NO training what so ever. If I were Toyota and had only model for sale on the lot, I would have made sure I had the best people on the job if someone came in looking for one. The dealership was a ghost town and yet they had a kid who couldn't even tie his own shoes try to sell me on a car he had no clue about.

Let's not forget quality of service. I know all of these dealerships are privately owned, but every experience a customer has reflects on the company as a whole. I just hope Toyota has their dealers all prepped for what is in store.

BTW, I didn't by the car because they didn't have the model I wanted and shafted me on the trade in.

flipside909

They did this to meet the demand of the customers. LC was always a higher end SUV offering for Toyota above the 4Runner and Rav4. Why not outfit the flagship SUV with the flagship type options?

The economic downturn is killing sales, not just for the Sequoia but with the whole large SUV market in general. You keep bringing up what happened 9 years ago when the world economy was on the rise. Of course Toyota built for the future. They aren't going to just offer the same model for 10+ years with no changes. No one expected the economy to take a turn for the worst...not even Toyota. So what does it matter that Toyota is not moving units at their original projected sales targets? They did pull back on Sequoia production as they did with the Tundra to reduce an overstock of models. I'm pretty sure Toyota will ramp up production as soon as sales grow once again. It's an ongoing cycle. Supply and demand.


You never know, they may offer that in a mid cycle production update. Just be patient.

C. McHale

Back about 2 years ago, I was looking to replace my junky 2001 Nissan Sentra. I liked the look of the new Camry and Accord. Went to a dealer to see a new Camry. Now, mind you, this is at a point before I even really paid much attention to interiors.

The first thing I thought when I sat in the Camry is...this is it? I was expecting a significant step up in design (I was paying little attention to soft vs. hard surfaces) vs. my Sentra and it's hard to describe how much the Camry disappointed me. My general perception of Toyota before getting into the Camry at that CarMax was rock solid, like most people.

Also like most people who just go out and buy a Toyota without trying any of the competition.

When I sat in the new Accord, I was quite surprised how much better its interior was than the Camry. I would've thought there would be more parity between the two.

But I guess it goes to show, perception is sometimes quite different from reality.

I'd also question some of the people defending the interior quality of some Toyota products--why? There's competition out there that offers better quality for the same, if not lower, money. Note I'm not questioning the quality of Lexus interiors so much--those are mostly still very high quality. But Toyota products seem to be suffering in this area, and it's something they really could do a better job with. Especially since much of the competition, such as Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, Kia, etc. are stepping up.