I am going to go out on a limb here and make a huge prediction
#31
I think toyota now has a difficult problem to solve - not particularly with folks knowledgable, but with John Q Public. As a 2008 Avalon owner, when I shopped for this car I looked at the Accord, briefly at Nissan and Acura. I didn't even go on a Ford or Chevy lot. Having owned several toyota's, I knew the cars were the best investment I could make.
Now, I have a little doubt, mainly because it took them waaay too long to face reality and take action on the gas pedal issue. Basically, they were allowed to ignore it, or at least keep the public in the dark, until a police officer who was trained in motor vehicle operation, and his family, all lost their lives....
The Joun Q Public buyer, who doesn't visit CL to become omnicient, is now far more likely to visit the domestic lots, see a decent product at a decent (or better) price, with a better warranty, and buy. Without debating the details, the general perception damage is done, and will take years to repair. Good thing is a way for Toyota out of this is better warranties, which is good for John Q Public that buys their cars. My $.02 is this is one of the first moves Toyota makes.
Now, I have a little doubt, mainly because it took them waaay too long to face reality and take action on the gas pedal issue. Basically, they were allowed to ignore it, or at least keep the public in the dark, until a police officer who was trained in motor vehicle operation, and his family, all lost their lives....
The Joun Q Public buyer, who doesn't visit CL to become omnicient, is now far more likely to visit the domestic lots, see a decent product at a decent (or better) price, with a better warranty, and buy. Without debating the details, the general perception damage is done, and will take years to repair. Good thing is a way for Toyota out of this is better warranties, which is good for John Q Public that buys their cars. My $.02 is this is one of the first moves Toyota makes.
#32
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIchigan
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wholeheartedly disagree on your view of the Sequoia. Up until a few months ago it was outselling the 4runner. If anything Toyota needs to stop selling the Land Cruiser in the American market. Some platform consolidations could be made so that the Tundra/Sequoia share a platform with the Land Cruiser. That would save a little bit of cash I would think.
Land Cruiser can easily support the USA market like they had prior to 2001.
#33
Lexus Connoisseur
I think toyota now has a difficult problem to solve - not particularly with folks knowledgable, but with John Q Public. As a 2008 Avalon owner, when I shopped for this car I looked at the Accord, briefly at Nissan and Acura. I didn't even go on a Ford or Chevy lot. Having owned several toyota's, I knew the cars were the best investment I could make.
Now, I have a little doubt, mainly because it took them waaay too long to face reality and take action on the gas pedal issue. Basically, they were allowed to ignore it, or at least keep the public in the dark, until a police officer who was trained in motor vehicle operation, and his family, all lost their lives....
Now, I have a little doubt, mainly because it took them waaay too long to face reality and take action on the gas pedal issue. Basically, they were allowed to ignore it, or at least keep the public in the dark, until a police officer who was trained in motor vehicle operation, and his family, all lost their lives....
Secondly, the CHP officer who lost his life was from a totally different car and a totally different issue. It was a loaner ES350 with an incorrect floormat installed in the car. The ES350 is not included in the Toyota recall as it has no issue with a "sticking" gas pedal. Certain Toyota models are affected by the recall, and they are vehicles that are produced in North America ONLY.
The Joun Q Public buyer, who doesn't visit CL to become omnicient, is now far more likely to visit the domestic lots, see a decent product at a decent (or better) price, with a better warranty, and buy. Without debating the details, the general perception damage is done, and will take years to repair. Good thing is a way for Toyota out of this is better warranties, which is good for John Q Public that buys their cars. My $.02 is this is one of the first moves Toyota makes.
#34
Lexus Connoisseur
S2000 and NSX compete against different segment than the Mr2 and Celica. Well maybe not so much the S2000. When I was reffering to canceling the NSX, I compare it to the upcoming, money losing LFA...completely pointless when they company is losing money and is struggling with quality problems.
Either Land Cruiser or Sequoia for worldwide. END OF STORY. The Sequoia is a dog right now that offers two engines and three different trim levels. They sold 644 units in January.
Land Cruiser can easily support the USA market like they had prior to 2001.
Land Cruiser can easily support the USA market like they had prior to 2001.
#35
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIchigan
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Joun Q Public buyer, who doesn't visit CL to become omnicient, is now far more likely to visit the domestic lots, see a decent product at a decent (or better) price, with a better warranty, and buy. Without debating the details, the general perception damage is done, and will take years to repair.
Good thing is a way for Toyota out of this is better warranties, which is good for John Q Public that buys their cars. .
Right now, if the general public sits in a Camry, they will immediately notice the lack of quality.
#36
Lexus Connoisseur
I never thought of the warranties, but I predicted you are going to see a shift in the way Toyota does interiors to help change perceptions. Camry and Corolla as well as Avalon. The number one place a consumer notices quality is the interior....You will see some of the best Toyota interiors in the next few years including an upgrade to the Corolla.
Right now, if the general public sits in a Camry, they will immediately notice the lack of quality.
My opinion is going to be very different from yours, but having driven many Camrys throughout the years from the 1st gen to the current 6th gen, including owning a few, there is nothing wrong with the current offering.
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
FYI, the NSX lost over 800 million for Honda. The S2000 was a model made solely for their anniversary to be sold only a few years. When they saw demand continued, they continued to build it.
This rant is now all over the place.
#38
Lexus Champion
Lot's of testosterone and trash talk being thrown around here.
Let's put things in perspective. The car industry is a global business and is probably the most competitive business to be in. There are too many companies with too much production, and every company is trying to grab as much share as possible to lower their unit costs. That's how Henry Ford saw it and that is how the business works. The goal is to produce the best product for the lowest cost, there is no sin in that. The Japanese ate the US auto business by bringing in good quality cars at a competitive price. I owned one of the first Corolla's in the US in the early '70's. The fit 'n finish and overall feel of that sub-$2k car was light years ahead of the AMC Hornet, Plymouth Valiant, or Chevy Nova of the day. I haven't owned a US car since.
The business world always has to juggle quality (perceived and real) with cost. If they don't they go out of business. If Toyota's quality has gone down they will pay for it in market share and profit. They will live and die by that standard. If a customer finds a better car at a better price after juggling quality, reliability, and many other factors of ownership than they will go elsewhere. It's very easy to talk trash and Monday morning quarterback what's good or bad with Toyota. Most of this nonsense with this pedal is a non-issue, yet everyone now wants to put Toyota on the autopsy table like they are dead. Give it up, they will recover from this.
Let's put things in perspective. The car industry is a global business and is probably the most competitive business to be in. There are too many companies with too much production, and every company is trying to grab as much share as possible to lower their unit costs. That's how Henry Ford saw it and that is how the business works. The goal is to produce the best product for the lowest cost, there is no sin in that. The Japanese ate the US auto business by bringing in good quality cars at a competitive price. I owned one of the first Corolla's in the US in the early '70's. The fit 'n finish and overall feel of that sub-$2k car was light years ahead of the AMC Hornet, Plymouth Valiant, or Chevy Nova of the day. I haven't owned a US car since.
The business world always has to juggle quality (perceived and real) with cost. If they don't they go out of business. If Toyota's quality has gone down they will pay for it in market share and profit. They will live and die by that standard. If a customer finds a better car at a better price after juggling quality, reliability, and many other factors of ownership than they will go elsewhere. It's very easy to talk trash and Monday morning quarterback what's good or bad with Toyota. Most of this nonsense with this pedal is a non-issue, yet everyone now wants to put Toyota on the autopsy table like they are dead. Give it up, they will recover from this.
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beside that in the US the LC overlaps with the Lexus GX and LX.
#40
To answer flipsides question - my gas pedal is stuck to the floor alot
Seriously, I have not experienced any gas pedal issues, and I KNOW my Avalon is a great car. It's a "limited" edition - their flagship toyota. I have a co-worker with an ES Lexus, and riding in my Avalon, he pointed out several features he didn't expect to see in a toyota (heated and cooled seats for example).
Sometimes you can read misguided intent into the typed word - I'm not a toyota basher by any means. My oldest sons' first car was a solara, and I have the younger one in an Infiniti. I can't say any more than that about how I feel about japanese car manufactuters. I'm merely pointing out that IMHO it took Toyota too long to come forward with the knowledge of the issue, and an example of the damage the entire scenario will have with the general buying public.
I do think there will be a warranty modification by toyota to restore confidence in the product, as this addresses directly the main issue. That is a "soft" buck for them and is very easy to implement.
Seriously, I have not experienced any gas pedal issues, and I KNOW my Avalon is a great car. It's a "limited" edition - their flagship toyota. I have a co-worker with an ES Lexus, and riding in my Avalon, he pointed out several features he didn't expect to see in a toyota (heated and cooled seats for example).
Sometimes you can read misguided intent into the typed word - I'm not a toyota basher by any means. My oldest sons' first car was a solara, and I have the younger one in an Infiniti. I can't say any more than that about how I feel about japanese car manufactuters. I'm merely pointing out that IMHO it took Toyota too long to come forward with the knowledge of the issue, and an example of the damage the entire scenario will have with the general buying public.
I do think there will be a warranty modification by toyota to restore confidence in the product, as this addresses directly the main issue. That is a "soft" buck for them and is very easy to implement.
#41
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIchigan
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big problem now is that the Sequoia is not selling at 60k units per year like it did back in 2001, this is what toyota was aiming for with the 2nd gen redesign and they are paying for it dearly with only 644 units a month right now.
Toyota could easily offer a 4.6 Land Cruiser base model like they do in other countries, heck they could even offer the 4.0 v6 model from UAE markets
#42
Lexus Fanatic
i got a better prediction. and it comes from the most trustworthy source- my magic 8 ball.
I shook it, and it said toyota would be bankrupt by 2015.
i do hope they come out with a 12 year 120000 mile powertrain warranty.
that would be awesome
I shook it, and it said toyota would be bankrupt by 2015.
i do hope they come out with a 12 year 120000 mile powertrain warranty.
that would be awesome
Last edited by dunnojack; 02-03-10 at 05:04 PM.
#43
Lexus Champion
I just went on a test drive for a 2010 Prius this afternoon. I'm seriously considering trading in my car for something more fuel efficient and as strange as it may sound, I like the looks of the quirky car.
I took quite some time going over the car and found the build quality and use of plastics very good. Sure they could have used higher quality plastics just like every other Mfg. out there, but that's how all cars in this price range are made. I don't want to turn this thread into a Prius review; just wanted to share since we're on the topic.
What did suck was the buying experience. They had a brand new salesman working and he had absolutely NO training what so ever. If I were Toyota and had only model for sale on the lot, I would have made sure I had the best people on the job if someone came in looking for one. The dealership was a ghost town and yet they had a kid who couldn't even tie his own shoes try to sell me on a car he had no clue about.
Let's not forget quality of service. I know all of these dealerships are privately owned, but every experience a customer has reflects on the company as a whole. I just hope Toyota has their dealers all prepped for what is in store.
BTW, I didn't by the car because they didn't have the model I wanted and shafted me on the trade in.
I took quite some time going over the car and found the build quality and use of plastics very good. Sure they could have used higher quality plastics just like every other Mfg. out there, but that's how all cars in this price range are made. I don't want to turn this thread into a Prius review; just wanted to share since we're on the topic.
What did suck was the buying experience. They had a brand new salesman working and he had absolutely NO training what so ever. If I were Toyota and had only model for sale on the lot, I would have made sure I had the best people on the job if someone came in looking for one. The dealership was a ghost town and yet they had a kid who couldn't even tie his own shoes try to sell me on a car he had no clue about.
Let's not forget quality of service. I know all of these dealerships are privately owned, but every experience a customer has reflects on the company as a whole. I just hope Toyota has their dealers all prepped for what is in store.
BTW, I didn't by the car because they didn't have the model I wanted and shafted me on the trade in.
#44
Lexus Connoisseur
Big problem now is that the Sequoia is not selling at 60k units per year like it did back in 2001, this is what toyota was aiming for with the 2nd gen redesign and they are paying for it dearly with only 644 units a month right now.
Toyota could easily offer a 4.6 Land Cruiser base model like they do in other countries, heck they could even offer the 4.0 v6 model from UAE markets
#45
Depending on who you ask, your generalization is a bit biased considering you already have a general perception of Toyota. You can't really speak for the general public but the Camry is (or was) the #1 selling car in America for several consecutive years. If lack of quality was an issue, then you would people springing for that new Chevy Malibu or new Dodge Avenger.
My opinion is going to be very different from yours, but having driven many Camrys throughout the years from the 1st gen to the current 6th gen, including owning a few, there is nothing wrong with the current offering.
My opinion is going to be very different from yours, but having driven many Camrys throughout the years from the 1st gen to the current 6th gen, including owning a few, there is nothing wrong with the current offering.
The first thing I thought when I sat in the Camry is...this is it? I was expecting a significant step up in design (I was paying little attention to soft vs. hard surfaces) vs. my Sentra and it's hard to describe how much the Camry disappointed me. My general perception of Toyota before getting into the Camry at that CarMax was rock solid, like most people.
Also like most people who just go out and buy a Toyota without trying any of the competition.
When I sat in the new Accord, I was quite surprised how much better its interior was than the Camry. I would've thought there would be more parity between the two.
But I guess it goes to show, perception is sometimes quite different from reality.
I'd also question some of the people defending the interior quality of some Toyota products--why? There's competition out there that offers better quality for the same, if not lower, money. Note I'm not questioning the quality of Lexus interiors so much--those are mostly still very high quality. But Toyota products seem to be suffering in this area, and it's something they really could do a better job with. Especially since much of the competition, such as Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, Kia, etc. are stepping up.