4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

saw it in person at the Houston Auto Show, hideous.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

agreed. when someone can actually prove that every single decision by bmw is correct and right on, we will talk again

TRDFantasy

Official sales goal from BMW is 4000-5000 a year. It's quite a range, so averaging it out BMW expects to sell between 333-416 per month. Somewhat realistic, but sales could end up being quite lower than that, especially given the fact the 5 GT in the US is V8-only and has a higher MSRP than the X6.

SecPole14

BMW is always right because they are BMW.

BMW, and also Mercedes to a certain extent, are exceptionally arrogant and delusional.

Once they come up with an idea and put it into production, they do not admit failure or otherwise make adjustments, no matter how much criticism is lobbed at them. Oddly, criticism seems to make them even MORE stubborn.

Recently, it was first Bangle styling. Then iDrive. Then colossally stupid and/or uncompetitive products like the X3, X6, and now this GT. They really just don't care. As long as they sell even just 1 new GT, they'll probably be happy because to them it will CONCLUSIVELY PROVE that they made a product that SOMEONE wants and they have FILLED another **imaginary** "niche" in the marketplace.

Based on their latest offerings, I think BMW conceives their products during Oktoberfest competitions. Naturally, in a drunken stupor, the most ridiculous idea wins. Then when they sober up they present the idea as if it were a stroke of real genius and get it approved for production. I mean really, they can't mess with the 3 Series or 5 Series too much, so what else is there for them to do??

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well to be fair, i would say my statement applies to all manufacturers, not just bmw or mb. so that includes lexus as well for all i care. i am sure every decision they make have some kind of marketing effort behind to back them up, but that's far from saying they are all correct.

i own bmw, and i like what i have. but unlike some i wouldn't love everything just because of the brand

SecPole14

I was exaggerating for effect of course, but I was also being half-serious. It really does seem like they take a design first, sell later approach to some of their models.

I don't think your statement can be applied to all car makers, though. Some, like Subaru, seem to be much more in touch with customers and are able and willing to respond to criticism and enact change (see the debacle with the 2008 WRX for an example).

pagemaster

Sat inside the 550 GT.

It has very strange front door. The door does not have a window frame and the door is so incredibly short. It was very strange to say the least

LexFather

Well again BMW has to sell more vehicles so they have to enter even niche to sqeeze any possible sale or they will suffer b/c of economies of scale. This car didn't take much R&D to develop, its all existing things except the design. So to that extent its a smart move. However I don't see it being a hit here at all so maybe they expect it to sell in other markets.

MSRP means nothing as they lease very low and BMW leases more than anyone in luxury.
Henry=breath of fresh air

No better word than from Benz themselves

Mercedes admits R-Class was a failure

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/15/m...was-a-failure/

rominl

iTrader: (4)

oh yup, totally agree with you. some companies definitely are more willing to listen to people and try to improve from there. but then again, subaru still make some wrong decisions on the wrx, but then that's where they listen and correct.

by comparison, i definitely don't hear as much from bmw about listening to customers and make changes accordingly. they tend to drive more from themselves and tell people this is what the future is. maybe, but i am not sure

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lol i guess it's learning curve for us. for some it's just harder to realize every brand has their goods and bads and try to be objective. we have plenty of people here who thinks lexus is the best and everything else is crap. same with some on bmw, mb, etc... it never hurts to open up and try to enjoy what it's worth

IS-SV

lol, agreed. Many of us are enthusiasts that will continue to select and reject specific models even from the supposed best of brands.

Faymester

I admit to being against the 5GT till one day I was at my local BMW and thought *I have to just look at one* ... so I did, I even sat in it ... IF I were a remotely practical person AND the price wasn't so close to a FFRR which essentially needs nothing added (well, if I option the 5GT my way the price is close in Canada anyhow) I would probably definitely conside a 5GT ... but that's one massive IF as well as a huge AND for me.

DustinV

Interesting. I didn't know BMW tests their cars in Stuttgart - because this is Porsche and Mercedes territory. BMW, I imagine, tests their cars in Munich and the surrounding region (and within Bavaria).


I think this question is self-explanatory. Why waste money on a product that won't sell? Before this car even got the green light for production BMW evaluated their market research data - which told them something that nobody on this forum, including me, knows about. Clearly there is a market for this car - in Europe, North America and perhaps even Asia. It's too early to tell but I would wait for the sales figure 3-6 months from now.



Huh? Where is this the case? I think that BMW and MB receive their fair share of criticism just like everyone else.



In the European press the 5er estate is often criticized for being less spacious than its rivals from Audi and Mercedes. The 5er GT will most likely address these utility issues.

People see different things and advantages in different cars. You might not find the 5er GT appealing but there are people out there for whom this car fulfills a need and that's the deciding factor.


Where did I claim that the 5er is an excellent car for its price? If at all, I said that the 5er GT is an excellent car. What this car offers for its price is in end effect a subjective issue, too.



I have a hard time believing anyone considering a 5 series GT will expect it to handle better than a 5 series. I don't see this as being possible given the 5er GTs higher center of gravity. If anything, people will find the 5er GT appealing because of its increased utility and interior space (and the badge). I'm sure it handles well like a BMW should, but it won't be a 5 series in terms of driving dynamics.

Off road?



I don't think the X6 is supposed to be mass-seller in the first place. BMW probably expects the X5 to make up the bulk of sales. The X6 is most likely positioned as a sportier and "stylish" alternative to the X5.


What does the HS have to do with a 5er GT or X6?

DustinV

Oh please, Mercedes got their act together. The current M class is far from the disaster the original ML was. It might not be as reliable as a Lexus RX but apparently it's reliable enough for most people out there since it sold very strongly.

German quality and reliability surveys give the current ML a very good score. And these are not based on nationalism but facts. Real people reporting their experiences over years with the car. I have one of these reviews lying around my place somewhere. Will scan it once I find it and post it here for your benefit.

LexFather

To be fair Dustin, post 33...(I am guessing that is why he brought up the HS)

I read that it doesn't have much if any more cargo room than a 5 series wagon (looking for article).

To me if Audi knows not to bring the A5 5 door hatch here as Americans scoff at them for whatever reason(s). BMW is taking another chance here and as you stated, we shall see how it sells. (I hope they separate sales instead of including it in the 5 series figures).