Is Hyundai better than Toyota and Honda? New models suggest yes
02-09-10, 11:59 AM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the sounds of it, you've never driven an RX 
.
Just to clarify, I mean refined not just with how comfortable it is or how it drives, but how refined the interior is, how refined the little details in the vehicle are, just how refined it is overall.
Is that a rhetorical question or do you actually want an answer?
What do I want from a car company? I want vehicles where they sweat the little details, not just trying to impress with the latest fad or trendy styling. I want a car company that has consistency across it's lineup, and doesn't completely change their lineup every few years. To add to that, I want a car company that has styling which they can call their own, not styling borrowed from a bunch of various competitors. I want a car company that offers at least some innovation that sets them apart from the competition.
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, even GM and Ford, they all offer some unique attributes and characteristics with their vehicles. What does Hyundai offer that sets it apart? The value aspect is quickly eroding for Hyundai as they continue raising prices. Their styling is in constant change and unrest. What Hyundai offers is a frankenstein combination of various attributes and characteristics of the competition put together, but nothing that sets them apart really.
Quality and reliability from an automaker is a given in terms of wants as well.
Actually there is tons of proof Hyundai wants to be like Toyota, but it's your choice whether or not you are willing to believe it.
There is nothing wrong with benchmarking the best while trying to set yourself apart from the competition. There is something wrong by trying to follow the market leaders step by step, move by move. This is a strategy of constant imitation, and zero innovation. This is also a strategy that is doomed to failure.
Where are you getting your figures from? Hyundai sold less than 600,000 cars in China in 2009, which would make them 4th biggest in China for 2009. GM and VW are #1 and #2 in China right now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8451887.stm
http://www.canadiandriver.com/2010/0...first-time.htm
Hyundai is not even in the Top 3 in China.
As for your Canada figures, they are even more ridiculous
.
http://www.wheels.ca/article/783670
For 2009 overall sales and marketshare, Hyundai was not even in the Top 5. Hyundai was 6th in the Canadian market in 2009.
It would be beneficial for you to use facts in the future instead of making up numbers to make Hyundai look superior.
In that same comparison MT contradicted themselves and admitted the Veracruz was not as refined as the RX, and that the real reason the Veracruz won was strictly because of value.
"Probably"? Other than anecdotal evidence or speculation, do you have any solid facts to prove this? You've already established a pattern of making up numbers in some of your posts with no factual evidence, so if you don't have any solid facts why claim the Equus is "probably" the quietest car in the world?
Saying "you heard it was the quietest from your friend in Korea" doesn't count.
. Just to clarify, I mean refined not just with how comfortable it is or how it drives, but how refined the interior is, how refined the little details in the vehicle are, just how refined it is overall.
when hyundai introduced new cars in 06, 07 or even 08, it was competitive against competition, but it wasn't better. it lacked style too.
but just look at the recent trend. new sportage, new sonata, genesis coupe, Soul, Forte Koup and etc. Hyundai is bringing out cars that are attractive. it's no longer appliance like if you ask me. hyundai/kia is making a strong design statement and they are making quality cars. what more do you want from a car company?
but just look at the recent trend. new sportage, new sonata, genesis coupe, Soul, Forte Koup and etc. Hyundai is bringing out cars that are attractive. it's no longer appliance like if you ask me. hyundai/kia is making a strong design statement and they are making quality cars. what more do you want from a car company?
What do I want from a car company? I want vehicles where they sweat the little details, not just trying to impress with the latest fad or trendy styling. I want a car company that has consistency across it's lineup, and doesn't completely change their lineup every few years. To add to that, I want a car company that has styling which they can call their own, not styling borrowed from a bunch of various competitors. I want a car company that offers at least some innovation that sets them apart from the competition.
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, even GM and Ford, they all offer some unique attributes and characteristics with their vehicles. What does Hyundai offer that sets it apart? The value aspect is quickly eroding for Hyundai as they continue raising prices. Their styling is in constant change and unrest. What Hyundai offers is a frankenstein combination of various attributes and characteristics of the competition put together, but nothing that sets them apart really.
Quality and reliability from an automaker is a given in terms of wants as well.
i have no idea how you see Celica in Gen Coupe. 
and what's wrong with following the most successful car brand in the world?(minus recalls)
should Hyundai follow Chrysler? should they mimic Honda? Nissan? if you are goal is to become the best selling car brand in the world, you have to go after the best. Frankly, I'm glad that Hyundai wants to be like toyota (there is no proof of this, but i can see why you think hyundai is imitating toyota). it only means that they are ambitious and they want to be #1. Toyota before recall was taught in school. I've read the entire book, 'Toyota Way'. I'm sure Hyundai folks did too.
I'm no economist, but I can easily see Hyundai's growth will explode in this decade. not just a gradual growth. I think at one point it will explode.
and you don't have to worry about Hyundai because they know what they are doing. they grew every year. they are one of the most profitable car maker in the world. they sold over 800,000 cars in China(#1 market in the world) and became #2 best seller there. Selling incredibly well in India which will become 2nd biggest market. They are #2 best seller in Canada passing Honda. Globally they are firm at #4.
when you have a genuine work ethic, ambition, $, and government to back you up, it's hard to fail. it's just matter of time IMO.
and what's wrong with following the most successful car brand in the world?(minus recalls)
should Hyundai follow Chrysler? should they mimic Honda? Nissan? if you are goal is to become the best selling car brand in the world, you have to go after the best. Frankly, I'm glad that Hyundai wants to be like toyota (there is no proof of this, but i can see why you think hyundai is imitating toyota). it only means that they are ambitious and they want to be #1. Toyota before recall was taught in school. I've read the entire book, 'Toyota Way'. I'm sure Hyundai folks did too.
I'm no economist, but I can easily see Hyundai's growth will explode in this decade. not just a gradual growth. I think at one point it will explode.
and you don't have to worry about Hyundai because they know what they are doing. they grew every year. they are one of the most profitable car maker in the world. they sold over 800,000 cars in China(#1 market in the world) and became #2 best seller there. Selling incredibly well in India which will become 2nd biggest market. They are #2 best seller in Canada passing Honda. Globally they are firm at #4.
when you have a genuine work ethic, ambition, $, and government to back you up, it's hard to fail. it's just matter of time IMO.
There is nothing wrong with benchmarking the best while trying to set yourself apart from the competition. There is something wrong by trying to follow the market leaders step by step, move by move. This is a strategy of constant imitation, and zero innovation. This is also a strategy that is doomed to failure.
Where are you getting your figures from? Hyundai sold less than 600,000 cars in China in 2009, which would make them 4th biggest in China for 2009. GM and VW are #1 and #2 in China right now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8451887.stm
http://www.canadiandriver.com/2010/0...first-time.htm
Hyundai is not even in the Top 3 in China.
As for your Canada figures, they are even more ridiculous
.http://www.wheels.ca/article/783670
For 2009 overall sales and marketshare, Hyundai was not even in the Top 5. Hyundai was 6th in the Canadian market in 2009.
It would be beneficial for you to use facts in the future instead of making up numbers to make Hyundai look superior
.I know many people who drove Equus. In korea, new equus is everywhere. I follow every hyundai in details and korean-spec Equus is a great ride. it's probably the quietest car in the world right now. it's more on LS side. it's wider than S. even the korean spec is not floaty. US spec will have better suspension IMO. but in this segment, spec really isn't that big of a deal. it's the image. S is the king. LS has that perfect Japanese flagship image. 7 has sporty image, audi is an underdog 'aren't you sick of S' image. Equus has no image. People will view it as a korean RWD lincoln town car.
it doesn't matter what Equus or Genesis targets. they both have hyundai badge. it competes against its price bracket. no matter what genesis wants to be, it's 33k-42k car.
Equus can target S class all they want, but at the end of the day its 55k car. it will compete with 50-60k cars. if hyundai makes 80-85k Equus, i'm sure it will have better details and etc. but it's not necessary. hyundai will bring equus to not to sell, but to upgrade their image. it's their halo car. i'll be surprised if hyundai sells 2000 equus a year.
it doesn't matter what Equus or Genesis targets. they both have hyundai badge. it competes against its price bracket. no matter what genesis wants to be, it's 33k-42k car.
Equus can target S class all they want, but at the end of the day its 55k car. it will compete with 50-60k cars. if hyundai makes 80-85k Equus, i'm sure it will have better details and etc. but it's not necessary. hyundai will bring equus to not to sell, but to upgrade their image. it's their halo car. i'll be surprised if hyundai sells 2000 equus a year.
Saying "you heard it was the quietest from your friend in Korea" doesn't count.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 02-09-10 at 12:02 PM.
02-09-10, 12:45 PM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey TRD,
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/s...ar-716797.html
http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-news...ina-in-09.html
#2 in china. you forgot to include kia. hyundai/kia = #2.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/s...ar-716797.html
http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-news...ina-in-09.html
#2 in china. you forgot to include kia. hyundai/kia = #2.
Last edited by joe80; 02-09-10 at 12:52 PM.
02-09-10, 12:49 PM
#64
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, even GM and Ford, they all offer some unique attributes and characteristics with their vehicles. What does Hyundai offer that sets it apart? The value aspect is quickly eroding for Hyundai as they continue raising prices. Their styling is in constant change and unrest. What Hyundai offers is a frankenstein combination of various attributes and characteristics of the competition put together, but nothing that sets them apart really.
Quality and reliability from an automaker is a given in terms of wants as well.
You are so stuck in year 2000. Wake up and buy some Hyundai's stock.
02-09-10, 12:55 PM
#65
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Probably"? Other than anecdotal evidence or speculation, do you have any solid facts to prove this? You've already established a pattern of making up numbers in some of your posts with no factual evidence, so if you don't have any solid facts why claim the Equus is "probably" the quietest car in the world?
Saying "you heard it was the quietest from your friend in Korea" doesn't count.
it's something called dBA level. they test these things you know? Sorrento had 59 dBA level @ 70mph.
http://www.insideline.com/kia/sorent...gination_top_0
I remember reading about Equus DBA level being world class. korean publication of course. i'll try to find it.
02-09-10, 12:59 PM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for your Canada figures, they are even more ridiculous
.http://www.wheels.ca/article/783670
For 2009 overall sales and marketshare, Hyundai was not even in the Top 5. Hyundai was 6th in the Canadian market in 2009.
It would be beneficial for you to use facts in the future instead of making up numbers to make Hyundai look superior
.dude whenever i talk about hyundai, i'm including Kia as well.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2010/01...-year-end.html
i was wrong though. hyundai/kia is #2 foreign(non- US) brands. passing honda/acura
Hyundai: +28% to 103,233
Kia: +22.9% to 46,118
hyundai/kia = 149351 total canadian sales. 4th over all, #2 foreign.
and just broke all time sales record for january. Canadians are smart.
Last edited by joe80; 02-09-10 at 01:12 PM.
02-09-10, 01:20 PM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe LS600h L has 58.9 decibel level @ 70. (cruise)
LS 460 Sport is 58.2 @ 70 (cruise)
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...50i-sport.html
from my recollection genesis v6 and v8 had low 60's on decibel rating. 62 or 63 i believe. every one says Equus is much quieter than both genesis. the reason why it's much heavier is because of the soundproofing. korean bosses love quiet cars. they could careless about handling.
I think LS was always leader in being the most quiet, but i think Equus is up there with LS. much more quieter than germans. i can't seem to find the article about it. i read it from bobaedream.
LS 460 Sport is 58.2 @ 70 (cruise)
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...50i-sport.html
from my recollection genesis v6 and v8 had low 60's on decibel rating. 62 or 63 i believe. every one says Equus is much quieter than both genesis. the reason why it's much heavier is because of the soundproofing. korean bosses love quiet cars. they could careless about handling.
I think LS was always leader in being the most quiet, but i think Equus is up there with LS. much more quieter than germans. i can't seem to find the article about it. i read it from bobaedream.
Last edited by joe80; 02-09-10 at 01:37 PM.
02-09-10, 01:20 PM
#69
Lexus Champion
I told him to get a CR-V, RAV4 or an Escape instead, but he's drank the Hyundai kool-aid...
02-09-10, 01:25 PM
#70
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but i think my santa fe is better than CRV though. santa fe competes with RAV4 and higher end CRV price wise. it's is alot more car than CRV, but it was only $500 more than CRV when i bought mine. with hyundai rebates and everything, santa fe is a great buy. compared to CRV it has v6, more room, better exterior design and etc. can't complain.
02-09-10, 01:33 PM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the short run, yes. In the long run Hyundai's still got lots of room to improve on. My old boss has a 2004 Santa Fe, the interior is pretty beat and his cat self-destructed via blockage and a hole was burned into it when the backpressure was excessive. Should I also say his engine was burning oil as well?
I told him to get a CR-V, RAV4 or an Escape instead, but he's drank the Hyundai kool-aid...
I told him to get a CR-V, RAV4 or an Escape instead, but he's drank the Hyundai kool-aid...
i know all about last gen santa fe. my sis had one. it's a pretty shiity if you ask me. current gen is miles better than last gen santa fe and my santa fe isn't even all that great.
oh by the way, design was very very original. BEING ORIGINAL = OVERRATED. yuck.
02-09-10, 01:35 PM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey TRD,
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/s...ar-716797.html
http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-news...ina-in-09.html
#2 in china. you forgot to include kia. hyundai/kia = #2.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/s...ar-716797.html
http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-news...ina-in-09.html
#2 in china. you forgot to include kia. hyundai/kia = #2.
It seems the articles do not consider GM an "overseas" automaker in China due to GM's joint ventures.
dude whenever i talk about hyundai, i'm including Kia as well.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2010/01...-year-end.html
i was wrong though. hyundai/kia is #2 foreign(non- US) brands. passing honda/acura
Hyundai: +28% to 103,233
Kia: +22.9% to 46,118
hyundai/kia = 149351 total canadian sales. 4th over all, #2 foreign.
and just broke all time sales record for january. Canadians are smart.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2010/01...-year-end.html
i was wrong though. hyundai/kia is #2 foreign(non- US) brands. passing honda/acura
Hyundai: +28% to 103,233
Kia: +22.9% to 46,118
hyundai/kia = 149351 total canadian sales. 4th over all, #2 foreign.
and just broke all time sales record for january. Canadians are smart.
Suzuki also offers a great warranty in the US, yet I don't see people lining up to buy them.
Hyundai's great warranty also comes with restrictive warranty transfers compared to the competition.
What you've listed is nothing really unique or nothing that makes a Hyundai, a Hyundai. What defines a Hyundai? What do Hyundai vehicles stand for? Hyundai used to stand for great value, but not so much anymore.
We all know what Toyota, Honda, Nissan, or Ford vehicles stand for and what they represent.
Only Hyundai's new models are starting to get more stylish. The styling itself is not that unique or distinctive.
in 2004, hyundai made average to below average cars. are you seriously comparing 2004 hyundai to current hyundai?
i know all about last gen santa fe. my sis had one. it's a pretty shiity if you ask me. current gen is miles better than last gen santa fe and my santa fe isn't even all that great.
oh by the way, design was very very original. BEING ORIGINAL = OVERRATED. yuck.
i know all about last gen santa fe. my sis had one. it's a pretty shiity if you ask me. current gen is miles better than last gen santa fe and my santa fe isn't even all that great.
oh by the way, design was very very original. BEING ORIGINAL = OVERRATED. yuck.
02-09-10, 01:59 PM
#73
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MIchigan
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dunno, its been a while since I read it. Can you scan it and post it? I would like to read it again
02-09-10, 02:02 PM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: il
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hyundai ranks above average in dependability already. and always rank top 10 in initial quality.
and from that consumer's report article, hyundai hit another home run yet again.
open your eyes and see what hyundai is doing. it's remarkable achievement if you ask me.