Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

mmarshall

I don't have hard numbers, but the DeVille/DTS, locally, in my D.C. area, is enormously popular with older people....in general, it, and the Buick LeSabre/Park Avenue/Lucerne, attract older folks like magnets (and occasionally, though not often, younger ones as well). One of the ladies in my church got a new DeVille/DTS every fall, like clockwork, for some 47 years, before she passed away (she was fairly well-heeled).

The DTS buyer-core of loyal customers, though, at present, seems to be dying off with age......how the Baby Boomers, who will soon replace them, feel about the car is, of course, an interesting (and debatable) point....many of these Boomers grew up with big, heavy American family, muscle, and luxury cars in the 60's, but, since then, many of them have also turned to imports.


The LS, conversely, here in this area, seems to attract a group of buyers that is generally a little younger than the DTS/Lucerne group, have higher incomes, and, of course, gravitate slightly more towards imports. How the LS Sport will sell here, in this area, remains to be seen, where it will be competing strongly with the BMW 7-series and Mercedes S-Class (which also seem to sell well here)

Milla...

Euros are of a different breed my friend so I will quote you and then answer your question with another quote that perfectly expresses what I mean..

MMarshall if you don't mind..

flipside909

Lexus is on the move to broaden their appeal and expand on what they already have. Mercedes Benz did not have the BMW sport appeal when it introduced AMG and it's inhouse "Sportline" about 20 years ago. Saying Euro's are a different breed is a bit ignorant don't you think? Volvo, Saab and Fiat are the epitome of sport? Riiight.

mmarshall

Although I'll let him speak for himself, I think, Ryan, what milla was trying to say was that Euro-spec vehicles tend to have stiffer chassis/underpinnings (or offer more of them as options) than on their American-spec equivalents. That is done, not just for sharper handling, but because of the general difference in pavement quality between America and Europe. There, roads don't have as many potholes, frost heaves, warps, or as much crumbling from age as here in America. Coming from sunny, dry, SoCal, you would be shocked to see the general condition of many roads in Northeastern cities and the Great Lakes Snow belt....and I'm not exaggerating. Michigan, for example (arguably the worst overall state for road quality), has some roads that are like the surface of the moon. I don't know why some auto-test magazines like Car and Driver and Automobile continue to stay there in Michigan, and not relocate.

Milla...

and I understand that, I really do..



I will rise your with a because you're missing my point...

Euros are of a different breed in that they do things differently for different reasons quite often based on their heritage among others, we can say the exact same for Japanesse and American manufactures.
Ok look, Its the same reason why most scoff at the Panorama, and the Cayenne its totally not them even though they can do it most have a hard time taking them seriously because they were so dog-gone good at what they've done for years. But hey who am I who are we, if a company wants to venture off and do different then more power to them.

I personally don't like the direction Lexus is taking the LS (a car that I have always respected - I've had three) So this will be added to my list of many reasons I wont go back to them (at this time).

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Mercedes had the 400E, 560SEC, 560 SL, 190e16v which all had sport appeal back in the 80's.

Question is will this LS460 deliver a blend of true sport as the label implies?? Vague steering feel will not cut it. Driver control is key when it comes to "sport" in an automobile.

Milla...

Exactly..So for now I will continue go to my neighborhood Mexican Resturant for my tacos instead of Jack-n The Box.

flipside909

Lets get real here. Compare 4 door large sedans. 300SE, 400SE/SEL, 500SEL in the early to mid 80's. Sport appeal?




NOPE.



I've driven it. It's almost there, but not quite. Steering feel is definitely key. But don't discount Lexus for their first attempt here, they have the right ingredients to continue this into the future.

IS-SV

I've driven those tank oldie Benz's, tank-like YES, sporty NO.

LS sells at similar pace to S-class in US today which is more relevant.

flipside909

You do realize JITB is not a nationwide fast food chain right? That's not a good analogy.

The Quattroporte is no better. 0-60 times of mid 5 seconds? That's what a standard LS460 acheives with less horsepower.

LexFather

Play nice everyone.

I have been trying to avoid this pissing match but I want to know where it says in the car handbook every car must drive like a European car? I think Lexus doing a good job of their interpretation of sport. It IS A LEXUS. My goodness if you want a BMW, just buy one!

Its quite confusing actually as this is what I've observed by some people

1. IS-F is too track focused and too sporty? (Huh)
2. The LFA is stupid who wants another exotic (Huh)
3. The LS sport needs to drive like a GT3 RS (Huh)

So it just sounds like a bunch of complaining to me.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Sure.. Back in the late 80's Mercedes offered AMG kits & parts including wheels, lowering springs etc. for the 560 SEL. Many 560 SEL owners especially in NYC, were sporting this variety of Mercedes SEL sedans.



The sport image was there for those who seeked it. The same can be said for this new LS Sport from Lexus.








Almost is not good enough in this arena of motoring. Why should one in the market for such a vehicle settle for half an effort? Make the steering right. They've had 20 odd years to get the steering right.. Lexus should of spent more R&D on make this vehicle a true competitor to large sport sedans from Europe.

LexFather

They were not FACTORY models, they had to be ordered through AMG which was a separate company at the time. Yes the cars were available but very VERY few made completely.

So you always shout "get behind the cars and drive" yet you are here telling people about the LS sport steering, which you have not driven?

This is a LEXUS, if you want a BMW 7 series, buy one. Clearly people like the way the LS steers.

If the Lexus steered just like a 7 series, then people would find something else to complain about.

mmarshall

I actually have a very high opinion, overall, of the IS-F, and don't have a whole lot of complaints about it. It is a very nice car, and quite well-built, but, to be honest, there are two things I'd change on it....and I think those two are reasonable. First, the American-spec suspension on it, like that on the Mitsubishi Evo, is simply too stiff for American-grade roads (which are often in very poor condition), and, second, the engine's torque curve is too jumpy between 3600 and 4000....I'd like to see it re-mapped to give more grunt below 3600 and evened out a little between 3600 and 4000. Yes, an AWD system COULD be added, but Lexus has already got that covered on the IS250....and most sport sedans in the IS-F's class, except for Audis, are RWD.