Road & Track on the Lexus LS460 Sport
02-12-10, 12:22 PM
#47
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I have always said that Lexus should move up their cars like Merc and BMW...have the GS start at $64k and have the LS start at $85k...make them uber' luxurious, that would be amazing...but that is IMO of course.
I've driven and rode in my son in law's LS 460L many times.It's very nice.Great ML system too.I like the car but just don't love it.It's kind of blah.
Last edited by pagemaster; 02-12-10 at 12:25 PM.
02-12-10, 05:54 PM
#49
That's because Cadillac and Lincoln are phasing out their TRUE full-size passenger-car limo platforms, 
and some limo firms are being forced to turn to much more expensive ones from other automakers such as the S-Class. The Buick Lucerne might be a good (though slightly less-plush) alternative, but even the Lucerne may not be around much longer.
Chrysler unveiled a prototype, Rolls-Royce-like Imperial a few years ago that would have also, possibly, made another good alternative, but, unfortunately, never followed through on it.....possibly because of the looming bankrupcy.
and some limo firms are being forced to turn to much more expensive ones from other automakers such as the S-Class. The Buick Lucerne might be a good (though slightly less-plush) alternative, but even the Lucerne may not be around much longer.Chrysler unveiled a prototype, Rolls-Royce-like Imperial a few years ago that would have also, possibly, made another good alternative, but, unfortunately, never followed through on it.....possibly because of the looming bankrupcy.
Lincoln is still very strong in the limo market, expecially when it comes to stretches - its almost the only stretch in NYC.
However the S class, which comes with LWB standard, has been the choice of executive limo services here in NYC. I do see occasional LS460L limos as well, but not as many.
The reason I mentioned S class limos, is because someone said about S class being more popular in NYC than LS. While it may be the case, I'm sure it is largely because of these limos. I think LS is more popular in private ownership.
02-12-10, 06:01 PM
#51
As far as price difference between LS and S class, it simply doesn't matter. One needs to realize that people that buy these cars are usually loaded, and 10-15k will not say their decision, they will buy whatever they like better - they aren't trying to knock $24.99 from their montly payment 
With that being said, why doesn't Lexus equip LS460 sport with active suspension?
With that being said, why doesn't Lexus equip LS460 sport with active suspension?
02-12-10, 06:24 PM
#52
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You are exactly right. Most people who are getting in S-Class have to start off a higher price point for the entry level S-class, that immedietly makes the LS less prestigous IMO. No doubt about it, the LS competes with the S-Class, BMW, and A8..there is no doubt about it, the LS is also a great car but it does start at over $20k less than its rivals.
I have always said that Lexus should move up their cars like Merc and BMW...have the GS start at $64k and have the LS start at $85k...make them uber' luxurious, that would be amazing...but that is IMO of course.
I have driven and rode many times in the LS. Yes, yes, and yes again it is great and superb, IMHO the 7 series and S-Class feel more expensive and they have more bling than the S-class....I have always thought the current LS460 (minues 600h) is a like a very, very, very good flip phone...the S-Class/7series and next gen A8 on the other hand are more like those fancy blackberry smart phones...
I have always said that Lexus should move up their cars like Merc and BMW...have the GS start at $64k and have the LS start at $85k...make them uber' luxurious, that would be amazing...but that is IMO of course.
I have driven and rode many times in the LS. Yes, yes, and yes again it is great and superb, IMHO the 7 series and S-Class feel more expensive and they have more bling than the S-class....I have always thought the current LS460 (minues 600h) is a like a very, very, very good flip phone...the S-Class/7series and next gen A8 on the other hand are more like those fancy blackberry smart phones...
For example, in Europe Lexus's base prices are much higher than Audi, but does that mean Europeans see Lexus as more prestigious than Audi? No not at all.
Of course people are going to be price driven when they make a purchase but thats global. There was a report a week or 2 ago that Audi just surpassed Mercedes to be the number 2 luxury automaker. Audi also has the lower priced vehicles in most of its markets. Does that make Audi less prestigious? Maybe, but most people don't care.
So Lexus uses the same strategy as Audi in the US market and people complain?
Anyway increasing the GS's and LS's price that high would be stupid. Mercedes DECREASED the price of the new E class and BMW is going to do the same with the 5 series. On top of that the new I6 BMW 7 series is "only" going to costs $70K. The price of all luxury cars is going down because they're all trying to grab the same cost conscience buyers.
02-12-10, 06:38 PM
#53
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I have a question for you Cj? Would a base LS460 as it is now be worth an $80k starting MSRP?
Audi also has the lower priced vehicles in most of its markets. Does that make Audi less prestigious?
02-12-10, 06:48 PM
#54
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Anyway right now, since the flagship market moving to lower price points, is the wrong time for Lexus to arbitrarily raise the price of the LS.
But I agree that there is room upward for the LS to move, but it should be done carefully, if done at all, since currently the LS is a great success.
02-12-10, 06:54 PM
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I see where you're coming from, but you didn't respond to the fact that I said all of Lexus's competition is moving downmarket. The 7 series is going to have a $70K starting price soon, and the current A8 already only cost $75K. The only one that's going to be over $85K is the S class, and who knows if Mercedes will follow BMW's lead and introduce a V6 S class for $70K.
Anyway right now, since the flagship market moving to lower price points, is the wrong time for Lexus to arbitrarily raise the price of the LS.
But I agree that there is room upward for the LS to move, but it should be done carefully, if done at all, since currently the LS is a great success.
Anyway right now, since the flagship market moving to lower price points, is the wrong time for Lexus to arbitrarily raise the price of the LS.
But I agree that there is room upward for the LS to move, but it should be done carefully, if done at all, since currently the LS is a great success.
02-12-10, 07:01 PM
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Anyway back to the LS. One way I beleive Lexus could move it upmarket without alienating current buyers, is if a V6 hybrid model replaced the current 460 on the bottom at $65K with a better higher grade interior than the current 460. Then a 5.0L V8 LS500 was slotted above it at $75K (more in line with the German competitors) with an even higher grade interior and an available LWB version. Then the range topping LS600hL at $100K.
That wouldn't be a bad plan to get the LS higher grade materials without increasing the base price.
02-12-10, 07:04 PM
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Anyway back to the LS. One way I beleive it could move upmarket without alienating current buyers, is if a V6 hybrid model replaced the current 460 on the bottom at $65K with a better higher grade interior than the current 460. Then a 5.0L V8 LS500 was slotted above it at $75K (more in line with the German competitors) with an even higher grade interior and an available LWB version. ...Then the range topping LS600hL at $100K.
Then the range topping LS600hL at $100K.
02-12-10, 07:07 PM
#59
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As far as price difference between LS and S class, it simply doesn't matter. One needs to realize that people that buy these cars are usually loaded, and 10-15k will not say their decision, they will buy whatever they like better - they aren't trying to knock $24.99 from their montly payment
With that being said, why doesn't Lexus equip LS460 sport with active suspension?
With that being said, why doesn't Lexus equip LS460 sport with active suspension?
We have data showing over 70% of 7 series cars r leased.
Also in Europe the Germans are sold as FLEET cars... Rentals.. Taxis etc
So it's completely unfair to judge the LS b/c the price is low ESPECIALLY since it has more/comparable standard features.
02-12-10, 07:11 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if we see the end of V12s in flagships at MB/BMW/Audi. There are rumors that Mercedes won't put one in the next gen S class, and I don't see why they should. The S class is plenty prestigious as it is and some people don't even know it offers a V12. V12s should probably be left to ultra luxury brands, although even ultra-luxury brands are increasingly using V8s and V10s.