mmarshall

Yeah.....I never liked the Lucerne name, for a car, either (we get the same Lucerne dairy products here). I understand it was Bob Lutz's idea when he was at GM.........but he was a well-known car guy, unlike a lot of high-level auto-company managers. Even so, Lutz liked the Lucerne so much he dumped his company-provided, chauffeur-driven Cadillac DTS for one.

I'm not sure I follow you. Since when is BMW a "stigma"? I agree that the ES and LS are more luxury-oriented than sport-oriented (though one of the CAR CHAT threads we are currently discussing is the new LS460 Sport).
And, don't forget, both the ES and LS now, even in non-sport trim, have lower-profile, stiffer-riding tires than their former versions did.

One thing I will agree with you on, though...........today's Lexus LS, quality-wise, performs much the same role that the wonderful big Buicks of the 1960's did back then.

Buick's prestige with older folks (based on what I've seen), is so high it is off the charts. I grant you, though, that a lot of auto magazines and "enthusiasts" don't fell that way....they want sportiness, rather then ride comfort.

mmarshall

Whether he or his chauffeur personally drives it, I don't know, but he is on record, in public, of declaring the Luceerne his favorite GM car (more so than the chauffeur-driven DTS he was provided at company expense), and that he was trading the DTS in for a Lucerne.

IS-SV

Buick's prestige with older folks is a thing of the past, lol. It's mainly the result of poor product delivered over the last decades. And none of this has anything to do with the topic/possible flagship coupe on the horizon.

mmarshall

I disagree, at least to an extent. If we are going to discuss a possible new Buick flagship, that will include its market research, demographics, Buick's recent history, and who is likely to buy the new flagship and who isn't.

IS-SV

I disagree to an extent because you are looking so far back that it becomes meaningless to Buick today. But feel free to pontificate about selling geezer pleasers to the dead or soon to be.

Yes it would be nice to talk about market research, demographics, Buicks recent history instead of soft-riding, ladder frame, gas guzzling, gross polluting, oversized, overweight, ugly, poor handling, poor braking, poorly built Buicks of the ancient past.

Thankfully Buick is looking into higher growth markets, with higher profit potential. And to move into these markets they must deliver competitive products unlike the junk that made up product portfolio for last few decades.

mmarshall

Fair enough.

Well, however you describe those cars, Buick built them, though, because people wanted them..........and they sold.

I'm not sure about the profit potential. Buick can't ask too much on the sticker-prices, simply because of the intense competition in this class. Yet, if they are going to seriously compete with Lexus (Buick's own stated goal), they can't use junk materials for their interiors like they did until just a couple of years ago. And, to compete with Tier 1 luxury vehicles, they will obviously need a real flagship, whether coupe or sedan.

And there's the quandry.....delivering a world-class flagship at a price that will help keep Buick in the black, yet not high enough (for a Buick) that it will drive people off. As I see it, it's going to be a rather delicate balancing act.

IS-SV

I'll keep it short with the offtopic geezer pleaser stuff.

1. Buick used to be a strong seller in the US, decades ago, yep the good ole days.
Note: most of those buyers are dead or have since lost their drivers license.

2. Buick in the US has masterfully contributed to the bankruptcy of GM (recent history). Incompetent management, incompetent product portfolio mostly w/no prestige.

3. Buick is delivering more competitive products today and in the near future so that they can become viable and profitable again in the US. Sounds like a plan, not a promise. Agreed, they need to deliver to have any hope of become Tier 1 or even Tier 2.
Of course, nobody is sure about the profit potential. But we are sure they know how to lose money as proven via audited financial statements of the last decade. Repeating the same mistakes of the recent past should be fatal.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I'm 57 and would never buy a Buick.Yes,both my grandparents and many of my uncles drove Buicks.I don't buy American badges and also won't buy a GM product due to the numerous GOV bailouts.
If I ever go back to an American badge,it will be a Ford product.Screw GM.
There are quite a few people out there with the same feelings on both Buick and GM.
Funny thing is my children kid around with me and ask when am I going to buy a Buick.
They're in their 20's and 30's.So Buick has a way to go yet before they get rid of the gray hair stigma.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I feel the same way, although there's no denying that Buick is making pretty good products these days. They are comparable to corresponding Toyota/Honda products.

I don't see anything bright in Buicks future. Government and UAW ran, management fiasco, they'll probably stick around on a permanent life support from the government, much like a lot of European car manufacturers.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Stagnation is not a part of Buick/GM's portfolio to date. "Moving foward" should be GM's new tag line. Look at this lovely coupe concept by Buick..

LexFather

The Riveria concept debuted back in 2007.

mmarshall

Yes...I remember it, but had forgotten what it looked like.

What do you think, Mike? Am I correct? That looks way too small, IMO, to be a flagship coupe. It's substantially smaller than even the Acura RL flagship you say is too small.

LexFather

Well Mike it surely will share the Camaro platform and have the Buick style to it. The Camaro is not small so why not a Buick with the same engines including the 400+hp V-8? If they hold the price, it can offer a V-8 for the price of a 6 in the 335/G37/A4.

Or debut it with a hybrid.

Here are the dimensions of the concept. It debuted in CHINA, Buick's biggest market. So its a tweener, not to big, not to small.

Body style(s) 2-door coupe
Wheelbase 2,870 mm (113.0 in)
Length 4,710 mm (185.4 in)
Width 1,940 mm (76.4 in)
Height 1,415 mm (55.7 in)

mmarshall

OK...Thanks. Looks to small to me to be to be on the Camaro platform, but dimensions don't lie.

I deleted my initial post on the concept coupe...perhaps it was a little too impulsive and critical.

Danimal

Looks like a neat car, but like 99% of cool cars, way out of my price range any time in the next 10 years.

Also, my frail ginger skin would not be able to handle a convertible. Which is why I would love to trade my SC for one without a sunroof, and UV resistant tint.