IS350jet

I've been thinking a lot lately about the horrible mess that Toyota is in right now and I can't help but wonder; If Toyota had been installing black boxes (data recorders) in their cars, as GM does, would they be in trouble the way they are today? First, let me opine that, in reality, there are no such issues of sticking or stuck throttles in Toyota vehicles. It is my opinion that most of these complaints are simply driver error. (Aside from the very rare floor mat issue). Further, it also my opinion, that, all manufacturers are facing the same complaints from drivers, only that, Toyota is so huge, and such a star player, it gets all the negative press.

Let's look at GM. They've been installing data recorders for several years, now. We don't hear much from GM regarding run-a-way cars simply because the complaints go away instantly when the data is pulled from the computer, only to find out, the driver was at fault.

Why, oh why, can't Toyota do this? It would have cleared them of all of these nonsense complaints before the media could latch on to them. I firmly believe black boxes make a huge difference in clearing a car company of building faulty products. Let's face it, Toyota is not building faulty products, here, but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to do the right thing. Do they admit the fault is their own, or do they blame the consumer and look bad in the public eye like Audi did in the early 80's? We know which rout they took.

Data recorders would be invaluable, because, among other things, they record data such as;

Vehicle speed at impact and up to 15 seconds before impact.
Throttle position (not pedal position)
Pedal position
movement of pedal 15 seconds before and up to a crash.
Brake pedal pressure, if applied.
Weather or not ABS was activated.
Weather or not the vehicle was over/under steering.
Steering wheel angle.
Steering wheel movement up to 15 seconds before a crash.
If the driver was wearing a seat belt.
Weather there was a front seat passenger, and, if, they were wearing their seat belt.
Weather SRS air bags were deployed.

As you can see, the data can virtually tell investigators exactly what the driver was doing before a so called "run-a-way" crash. I'm just getting sick and tired of people blaming Toyota for their incompetents just because they can.

Some might feel that black boxes are too "Big Brother-ish"
What are your thoughts on this?

Mods, please don't merge this with the Toyota recall thread. This is about black boxes, not Toyota, specifically.

wannaGX

I read yesterday that Toyota does install black boxes and has been but instead of allowing full assess as the other companies do, they refuse to share the info and have a policy of doing so only under court order, which, of course, just makes them look worse. There was an article yesterday on msn.com. . .

tromly

^^^^1, that's what I heard, should have had full access a long time ago

IS350jet

I just read the MSN article. I guess the data recorders were used extensively during the lengthy investigations in which no problems were found. I'm still a bit puzzled as to why Toyota doesn't shout more loudly about this feature. Why couldn't Toyota say to the world, "Look, we've pulled the data from every car involved in a stuck throttle complaint involving a crash and it is clear, the driver was at fault, here's the data to prove it". Really, these black boxes could be a saving grace for Toyota. Why aren't they taking advantage of it?

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

i think it would be a good idea if it can only be accessed by a court order. I don't want it transmitting or downloading to anyone outside of a court order for an accident investigation.

encore888

There have been a number of issues, but yes, all Toyotas come with black boxes. In the US, the issue is as stated above that the software is proprietary and Toyota only can read it, and will only release info under a court order. Also, Toyota only has 1 'prototype' black box reader in the US so it takes time to get a technician over and get the results. And, Toyota reps have said that the black box only records the final 1 sec. of data parameters so it has limited utility in a sudden acceleration investigation; but one guesses more use in a two-car collision (speed at time of impact, were brakes on, etc.).

IS350jet

It all seems plausible but wouldn't you think that Toyota would have done whatever they could have, including court ordered subpoenas of the data on complaint cars before they recalled over 8 million cars and trucks? I mean, come on, If customers are supposedly being killed by defective Toyota's, Toyota certainly has every right in the world to pull the data and analyze it. Isn't that enough for a court order? What if it were a single landmark case involving multiple deaths and hundreds of millions of dollars in lawsuits. Toyota shouldn't be able to get a court order to find out the truth to possibly clear their name? The consumer cries foul and Toyota doesn't have a right to defend themselves? Also, 1 second of data is absolutely useless for any kind of investigation. Are you sure it's only 1 second? Why even have it? GM's is 15 seconds, and continues to record after an air bag deployment. I guess i just don't have all the answers but IMO, data recorders, properly implemented and analyzed would have saved Toyota from this nonsense. Of course, the other theory is, they *have* analyzed EDR data and discovered that their cars actually are defective. (unlikely)

mmarshall

Black boxes, like many other high-tech devices, can, of course, be used for both good and bad, but, in their defense, they have been invaluable in accident investigations, and especially in courtrooms, where, because of them, people have been caught lying under oath about speed, evasive tactics, braking, etc.....

Even though most of them only preserve the last 5 seconds or so (sometimes more) before an accident, that information is often critical to the case.

IS350jet

Here's an excellent article.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Mel...ory?id=9814181

Also, a fantastic Youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzYLJHgUf0k

IS350jet

Quoted from the LA Times:

"