TRDFantasy

You said yourself you don't doubt the Camry is more "spongy", so why are you even arguing?

If you think suspension travel has nothing to do with it, then I seriously question your knowledge. Try telling that to serious off-roaders, and they will laugh you out of the room.

Unsprung weight might not be a huge factor, but it's still a factor.

Point is, damping on Hondas is mediocre on everything but silky smooth roads. I am willing to bet actual money also that the Accord has less suspension travel than the Camry.

For anyone who knows suspension design, the following is common sense.

Generally speaking:

The MORE suspension travel you have, the more comfortable the vehicle will be on a variety of roads and in a variety of conditions. More suspension travel also means less agility and handling ability on-road.

The LESS suspension travel you have, the better a vehicle will stay planted and handle well on-road, especially on smooth roads like race tracks for instance. Less suspension travel will ALSO allow you to get away with quicker rebound rates for springs and shocks like Honda does. However, less suspension travel means less comfort in a variety of (rough) road conditions, and less agility off-road.

mmarshall

You are generally correct, especially with conventional, non-active suspensions. But such features as multi-valve shocks, electronic suspension-damping mechanisms (Comfort, Normal, Sport, etc....), GM's Magna-Ride adjustable shock damping, air suspensions for self-leveling, Citroen's fluid-pneumatic/hydraulic suspension (generally not available in the U.S.), and Infiniti Q45-style active suspensions greatly complicate the picture....and often give you the best of both worlds (comfort and handling, or a choice, at the same time). Of course, these features are not usually found on run-of-the-mill family sedans like the ones in this article.

Of course, BMW engineers seem to have a magic touch. They can take even a conventional suspension and mix ride and handling like on no other mass-produced vehicles. Mercedes also does, on some models, but not quite to BMW's extent.

TRDFantasy

This is correct, thus I mentioned generally speaking.

Other systems like Toyota's Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System and Active Power Stabilizer Suspension System also try and give you the best of both worlds.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Because what you're stating as 'objective' fact is wrong. I'm just correcting you since you tend to use the word "objective" a lot whenever you try to pass something on as fact. No hard feelings.


Off-roaders do not increase suspension travel to get comfort. They do it for clearance. They have insane shock travel, so it must mean they ride ultra-smooth right?

Think about what a shock does. It dampens the input motion from the road. You are not going to get any information on damping by looking at how long each suspension travels. Doubt my knowledge? Go email Bilstein, Penske, Sachs, etc and see what they say. They don't spend crazy amount of time on valvings to get the right damping correct for nothing. I built my own shock dyno to test out suspensions and suspension travel is not something I'm concerned about unless I'm bottoming out.


I wouldn't necessarily consider the Honda dampers mediocre. Just because they aren't as smooth doesn't mean they don't work. They are good for their intended purpose. Some people don't like the float and rather have a planted feel. There is no bad setting, unless the car is so ridiculously stiff that you lose traction.

And what you said in the end could be true, but neither Camry or Accord will be going off-road. Like I said, both cars aren't going to hit their bumpstops under normal conditions so suspension travel means little. If the Camry is smoother, most likely because of the less damping shocks and softer spring rates.

But enough about suspension.

In retail sales, both Camry and Accord are hairs within each other. That clearly says majority of the midsize family car buyers are okay with either ride quality. Neither is superior to each other as it all comes down to preference.

On a side note, I am curious about the Sonata. I've only been in some rental Hyundais, but that was back when they didn't put much effort into their cars. The only car on the list that I have absolutely no desire to look into is the Nissan Altima.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Motortrend is usually all over the place when it comes to comparisons. One reason why I don't subscribe to their magazines anymore. A car can have good quality interior in one issue, and it can be considered cheap in the following month.

joe80

I really don't get 'simple to use interior' comment. load of crap if you ask me.

there are no iDrives on fusion, sonata, and etc. all of them are simple and straightforward IMO. none of these cars are complicated enough to get points taken off.

joe80

Then do you agree that Elantra is the better than civic, rabbit, or mazda3? maybe it is the best small sedan not including Cruze(too new, and updated), and your obvious choice, Corolla(i don't want to get into elantra vs corolla debate)? Elantra doesn't have Civic, rabbit, or mazda3's driving dynamics, but it has all the Camry's characteristics. it is the roomiest, soft cushy ride, and relatively quiet, and has one of the easiest user-friendly controls. it is classified as midsize sedan. and that's why i bought it for my wife. i knew it won't ride like mazda3, but my wife wouldn't care.
recently Elantra always wins consumer's report best small sedan award, but whenever enthusiast magazines test elantra against more fun cars like mazda3 or civic, it always loses.

it doesn't excel in anything, but does everything well. basically it's alot like camry in a small sedan world. it just gets the job done. and i've heard many people on this board commenting how boring elantra is numerous times. if you think civic or mazda3 is better then that's clearly a double standard IMO. I cannot imagine elantra winning a magazine comparison. I'll take mazda3 even with a controversial look over elantra.

and this is why i'm shocked that they chose camry over more fun and involving cars like fusion, their car of the year. because normally elantra or camry of the world doesn't win this kinda comparison. again, i'm excluding corolla because you will obviously take corolla over elantra even though elantra is much bigger car on paper and in person and has easier controls.

TRDFantasy

Honestly,

If I had to choose between an Elantra, Civic, Mazda3, or Rabbit, I would personally choose the Elantra.

It's going to be the most reliable out of those 4, probably tied or very close with the Civic. A Rabbit is nice but I cannot tolerate VW reliability problems. For being a mass-market major automaker, it's inexcusable that VW continues to have all these reliability problems.

I don't like the Mazda 3 personally. I find the interior too depressing overall. I don't like the lighting, the design of it, and some of the ergonomics are not to my preference.

Out of these 3 cars, the Elantra does everything well and is pretty reliable.

I also won't argue or debate with you about the Corolla, so I will exclude the Corolla in this case.

Och

iTrader: (3)

In my opinion, all of these cars are more or less equal. Some might have better this, or better that, but overall they are pretty evenly matched. Its no longer the 1990's where Accord and Camry were 10 times better than Taurus/Lumina/Hundai.

If someone made me choose one of these automotive appliances under a gun point, I'd probably chose the Accord or the Fusion.

spwolf

Well i think that 5-6 years ago, then new Sonata had beaten then old Camry. So if anything, this is worse record ;-)

mmarshall

Well, one nice thing about the Accord now (though it is not mentioned in the original article) is that it now has the Crosstour........a raised-suspension, AWD, hatchback version like the Subaru Outback. That was not the case as recently as last year.

mmarshall

All else equal, unsprung weight tends to roughen up the ride a little because it increases the amount of weight (and mass) that causes the springs/shocks to compress while going over bumps and road irregularities. Those impacts, of course, are partially transmitted through the suspension and steering into the cabin. How much of it enters the cabin, of course, is determined by number of factors in the chassis/suspension/steering/sub-frame designs.

Higher unsprung weight also degrades handling a little because the suspension has to work harder to overcome it, and keep the body level, under the stresses of cornering. That's why alloy wheels (which weigh less, but usually cost more to produce) are virtually standard on all but base models and entry-level vehicles now.

joe80

Elantra it is!

mmarshall

I haven't test-driven the very latest Elantra, but the most recent one I tried was, for a small sedan, an excellent combinaton of smooth ride, noise isolation, interior plushness/attractiveness, and precision-build quality. So was the Corolla........except that the Corolla's interior had some cheap tidbits and the brakes were excessively spongy and unresponsive.

TRDFantasy

Forgot to add, I don't like the Civic exterior styling that much, nor do I like the strange interior.

I'm also not a fan of Honda's low torque, high revving engines.

The suspension tuning and the ride/handling of the Civic doesn't appeal to me either.