J. D. Power & Associates 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study(Updated,Page3)
03-18-10, 10:51 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
DTS Had the Fewest Probs
DETROIT (Reuters) – Toyota and its luxury Lexus brand slipped for the second consecutive year in an influential vehicle dependability study released on Thursday.
Toyota Motor Corp's (7203.T) Lexus fell to fourth in the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Study. Lexus had been No. 3 in the 2009 key quality ratings, losing the top spot for the first time since the once-dominant luxury line became part of the closely watched study.
The results come at a critical time for the world's top automaker, which is struggling to regain consumer trust after a damaging series of recalls that has tarnished its once-sterling reputation for quality and reliability.
Porsche, Ford Motor Co's (F.N) Lincoln and General Motors Co's (GM.UL) Buick won the top three rankings in the study, which tallies vehicle dependability based on problems reported in the first three years of ownership. Ford's Mercury nameplate ranked fifth, behind Lexus.
The Toyota brand slipped two notches from 2009 to the sixth spot, but still was the highest-ranking mainstream brand with four models placed among the most dependable in their segments, including the top-selling Prius hybrid.
Honda Motor Co's (7267.T) mainstream Honda line and the blue oval Ford nameplate followed Toyota in the list.
The J.D. Power rankings are closely watched by automakers since they are seen as a key indicator of the resale value of vehicles and customer loyalty.
The study is based on responses from more than 52,000 owners of 2007 model-year vehicles and was fielded between October and December. Toyota launched the first of its recalls over unintended acceleration in late November.
Ford, the only major U.S. automaker not to restructure under bankruptcy in 2009, outperformed rivals with all of its Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brands placed in the top 10 of the list.
Lincoln showed the most significant improvement in quality, climbing six positions from 2009.
The study also showed that seven of the 10 models with the lowest incidence of problems in the industry are from GM and Ford.
GM's Cadillac DTS luxury sedan had the fewest problems, with 76 issues per 100 vehicles, compared with the industry average of 155 problems. That marked the first time in more than a decade that a domestic model has scored the least number of problems in the study.
J.D. Power said that for several brands including Cadillac, Ford, Hyundai (005380.KS), Lincoln and Mercury, consumer perceptions have not kept pace with their actual performance.
"It takes considerable time to positively change consumer perceptions of quality and dependability -- sometimes a decade or more -- so it is vital for manufacturers to continually improve quality and also to convince consumers of these gains," said David Sargeant, vice president of research at J.D. Power.
Chrysler LLC, which emerged from bankruptcy in June under the management of Fiat (FIA.MI), saw all of its Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands ranked below average in the study.
Chrysler was placed 20th, Dodge 28th and Jeep 34th in the study, which ranks 37 major nameplates.
03-18-10, 11:59 AM
#19
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This Study has a key factor we all need to keep in mind.
It's only for the first three years. Just about any car will be somewhat reliable in the first three years of ownership. It's not a real test of dependability by any stretch.
Show us the results of this study at 7 years, or 10 years. That's where you'll see the real differences in who's making the most dependable car or not.
Three years is just way too short. That's still within the warranty period, where typically very little goes wrong - for any make.
They are on certain models. Remember, this info is 3 years old.
It's only for the first three years. Just about any car will be somewhat reliable in the first three years of ownership. It's not a real test of dependability by any stretch.
Show us the results of this study at 7 years, or 10 years. That's where you'll see the real differences in who's making the most dependable car or not.
Three years is just way too short. That's still within the warranty period, where typically very little goes wrong - for any make.
They are on certain models. Remember, this info is 3 years old.
03-18-10, 12:40 PM
#20
It's a good result overall for the top brands, as for Lexus, I think their score of 3rd shows a good standing despite an increased lineup. However, 2010 means the results are in for the 2007 era models--LS 460, ES 350, GS 300/430, IS 250/350. No more LS 430--chart-topper and record holder for years, etc.
The first year 2007 models for LS 460, ES 350, etc. did have more issues than 2008 etc., which is why the LS 460 did not get the JD Power Initial Quality Award. However, as the 2nd and 3rd model years come online things may be different. Still, with such a massive lineup and more cars sold, it is harder IMO to keep up a high VDS score vs. a more niche player like Porsche (also IQS rival with Lexus).
The first year 2007 models for LS 460, ES 350, etc. did have more issues than 2008 etc., which is why the LS 460 did not get the JD Power Initial Quality Award. However, as the 2nd and 3rd model years come online things may be different. Still, with such a massive lineup and more cars sold, it is harder IMO to keep up a high VDS score vs. a more niche player like Porsche (also IQS rival with Lexus).
03-18-10, 12:54 PM
#21
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Jeezus Lexus is fine, it was 3rd, barely behind 2nd and 1st. I think JD Power is fair. I would hope a DTS is reliable by now
1. Its been on the market near 10 years
2. It has all the technology of my 1992 ES 300
3. It never was truly unreliable
Even Jaguar fixed the kinks in the X-type after years of it being on the market.
1. Its been on the market near 10 years
2. It has all the technology of my 1992 ES 300
3. It never was truly unreliable
Even Jaguar fixed the kinks in the X-type after years of it being on the market.
03-18-10, 01:08 PM
#22
It may be a similar case as Lexus had with the IQS; they lost the top spot to Porsche but regained it for 2009. We'll see if they can do it with the recall publicity and the larger lineup. There is room to improve--2 spots. 
Lexus was #1 in the VDS for 15 straight years from 1995-2008; in 2009 they were 2nd and in 2010 they are 3rd. 2009 and 2010 results reflect the 2006 and 2009 models. These results suggest that the current gen models are slightly less dependable than prior models, which is supported by anecdotal evidence. The only model Lexus won a segment award for, the GX 470, comes from the prior generation.
From data available however, it shows that the scores Lexus has have generally improved, however methodology may be a factor:
Year Rank Problems per 100 Vehicles
2005 #1 139
2006 #1 136
2007 #1 145
2008 #1 120
2009 #2 126
2010 #3 115
2007, 2010 were tie rankings
With the 2009-2010 results, Lexus still is the most consistent automaker in the top 5 for the past decade and half.
Lexus was #1 in the VDS for 15 straight years from 1995-2008; in 2009 they were 2nd and in 2010 they are 3rd. 2009 and 2010 results reflect the 2006 and 2009 models. These results suggest that the current gen models are slightly less dependable than prior models, which is supported by anecdotal evidence. The only model Lexus won a segment award for, the GX 470, comes from the prior generation.
From data available however, it shows that the scores Lexus has have generally improved, however methodology may be a factor:
Year Rank Problems per 100 Vehicles
2005 #1 139
2006 #1 136
2007 #1 145
2008 #1 120
2009 #2 126
2010 #3 115
2007, 2010 were tie rankings
With the 2009-2010 results, Lexus still is the most consistent automaker in the top 5 for the past decade and half.
03-18-10, 01:19 PM
#23
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03-18-10, 01:25 PM
#24
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It may be a similar case as Lexus had with the IQS; they lost the top spot to Porsche but regained it for 2009. We'll see if they can do it with the recall publicity and the larger lineup. There is room to improve--2 spots.
Lexus was #1 in the VDS for 15 straight years from 1995-2008; in 2009 they were 2nd and in 2010 they are 3rd. 2009 and 2010 results reflect the 2006 and 2009 models. These results suggest that the current gen models are slightly less dependable than prior models, which is supported by anecdotal evidence. The only model Lexus won a segment award for, the GX 470, comes from the prior generation.
From data available however, it shows that the scores Lexus has have generally improved, however methodology may be a factor:
Year Rank Problems per 100 Vehicles
2005 #1 139
2006 #1 136
2007 #1 145
2008 #1 120
2009 #2 126
2010 #3 115
2007, 2010 were tie rankings
With the 2009-2010 results, Lexus still is the most consistent automaker in the top 5 for the past decade and half.
Lexus was #1 in the VDS for 15 straight years from 1995-2008; in 2009 they were 2nd and in 2010 they are 3rd. 2009 and 2010 results reflect the 2006 and 2009 models. These results suggest that the current gen models are slightly less dependable than prior models, which is supported by anecdotal evidence. The only model Lexus won a segment award for, the GX 470, comes from the prior generation.
From data available however, it shows that the scores Lexus has have generally improved, however methodology may be a factor:
Year Rank Problems per 100 Vehicles
2005 #1 139
2006 #1 136
2007 #1 145
2008 #1 120
2009 #2 126
2010 #3 115
2007, 2010 were tie rankings
With the 2009-2010 results, Lexus still is the most consistent automaker in the top 5 for the past decade and half.
So even with them 2nd and 3rd their history is unprecedented AND the 2010 problems per car is the lowest EVER
03-18-10, 03:10 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
I didn't look at the other segments too close, but it looks like JDP categorizes cars primarily on size vs. cost etc.?
The ES350 is ranked in Mid Size Premium along with Audi A6, Infiniti M and Caddy STS all of which start quite a bit higher in price and go way higher up the model lineup. No big deal, just an observation.
The ES350 is ranked in Mid Size Premium along with Audi A6, Infiniti M and Caddy STS all of which start quite a bit higher in price and go way higher up the model lineup. No big deal, just an observation.
03-18-10, 03:25 PM
#26
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Just to be clear, this study looked at reliability/dependability over 3 years of 2007 models.
All the whisteblowers and ambulance chasers that claimed Toyota quality has gone down big-time, where are you now?
Even when you consider that several 2007 Toyota models had some problems here and there, Toyota STILL managed to get the best score out all major manufacturers.
Hyundai barely above the industry average, their long-term quality still does not match Toyota.
What's so sad? The LS was beaten by an ancient model that hasn't been updated in ages. Considering how advanced the technology is in the LS, that is an amazing achievement.
I'm sure the IS, SC, and LX are all near the top in their respective classes.
Lexus overall had one of the best overall scores in the study.
I agree.
To get a really accurate picture, one must take the results of several reputable long-term surveys.
All the whisteblowers and ambulance chasers that claimed Toyota quality has gone down big-time, where are you now?
Even when you consider that several 2007 Toyota models had some problems here and there, Toyota STILL managed to get the best score out all major manufacturers.
Hyundai barely above the industry average, their long-term quality still does not match Toyota.
I'm sure the IS, SC, and LX are all near the top in their respective classes.
Lexus overall had one of the best overall scores in the study.
Some of these figures, IMO, are questionable. Consumer Reports, which I consider the best reliability source of all, agrees with part of it, but is substantially different in other areas. A good example: J.D. Power ranks the Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice right behind the Miata in reliability, but Consumer Reports shows them both far behind the Miata in reliability, with a number of other cars in between. Last, J.D. Power and Consumer Reports probably have different ideas of which vehicles fall into which classes, which, of course, further muddles the picture.
To get a really accurate picture, one must take the results of several reputable long-term surveys.
03-18-10, 05:35 PM
#28
Here's an interesting notation: Jaguar, which was tied for #1 last year, dropped to #23 because of the Jaguar XK, as predicted by another reliability data site (which also indicates that the XF will keep Jaguar from gaining the top spots).
Also, the site says that the Porsche Cayenne was NOT included in the 2010 VDS, which may explain why Porsche went from #9 to the top spot this year, and because the Cayenne is coming back into the VDS next year, Porsche is not predicted to hold the top spot according to this site.
http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=576
Also, the site says that the Porsche Cayenne was NOT included in the 2010 VDS, which may explain why Porsche went from #9 to the top spot this year, and because the Cayenne is coming back into the VDS next year, Porsche is not predicted to hold the top spot according to this site.
http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=576
03-19-10, 02:42 AM
#30
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