V6, V8 Engines Lose Ground in 2009
03-21-10, 10:36 AM
#61
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03-21-10, 01:54 PM
#62
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Well I disagree. One, Toyota is not going to allow Hyundai or whomever comes next unseat them from their throne. Two, CAFE standards. The current Camry hybrid doesnt meet them, much less a regular Camry. And the current Camry hybrid costs what it does because its got features. By the time that you add them in, which people do get lots of options these days, the premium isn't that great.
Will the next Camry be more efficient? Probably. Will the I4 get 36+mpg? I doubt it.
I don't see CAFE as a big deal. For one CAFE numbers are calculated differently from EPA numbers and there more generous (meaning the current I4 Camry might already be a 35mpg car based on those numbers). Secondly Toyota is coming out with a whole line of Prius which will balance overall CAFE numbers upward (since CAFE is calculated based on overall volume not individual model).
My point is I do not believe an I-4 is more efficient just because its an I-4. The Sienna I-4 gets what a whopping 1/2 MPG more than the much better V-6?
Even the SMART car with a 3 cylinder gets pretty pissy economy, barely 35 MPG.
I do think some of the new generation of 4 cylinders are better but I have never been a fan. Too wheezy, have to rev it to get any power and they are loud and rougher than a 6, even with equal power.
It reminds me of the old Town Car argument. Yeah it only had 210hp for a V-8 but it was smooth as butter.
I hate to bring up the 450h again but if a big 4500lbs .38 or so cd rated SUV can get 30 mpg with a V-6 and a hybrid, well to me the I-4 better be getting 50 MPG or so for me to be attracted to it.
Or be the Subie/WRX turbo
Even the SMART car with a 3 cylinder gets pretty pissy economy, barely 35 MPG.
I do think some of the new generation of 4 cylinders are better but I have never been a fan. Too wheezy, have to rev it to get any power and they are loud and rougher than a 6, even with equal power.
It reminds me of the old Town Car argument. Yeah it only had 210hp for a V-8 but it was smooth as butter.
I hate to bring up the 450h again but if a big 4500lbs .38 or so cd rated SUV can get 30 mpg with a V-6 and a hybrid, well to me the I-4 better be getting 50 MPG or so for me to be attracted to it.
Or be the Subie/WRX turbo
From what I know Acura will be getting IMA also, but the electric motors will be bigger than the 13hp one Honda traditionally uses with the IMA system. The new Acura IMA will be more like what BMW and Mercedes have (glorified start stop plus electric boost), not like what Toyota/Lexus has with HSD.
03-22-10, 05:48 AM
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And I don't understand why IMA constitutes such a premium. The price of the Civic hybrid is absurd for what you are getting. Other mild hybrids are not as pricey.
03-22-10, 07:50 AM
#64
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I don't see CAFE as a big deal. For one CAFE numbers are calculated differently from EPA numbers and there more generous (meaning the current I4 Camry might already be a 35mpg car based on those numbers). Secondly Toyota is coming out with a whole line of Prius which will balance overall CAFE numbers upward (since CAFE is calculated based on overall volume not individual model).
I agree 6s are always smoother than I4s, but I4s are improving. Honda's I4s are of course some of the smoothest, especially in cars like the CR-V and TSX.
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I agree 6s are always smoother than I4s, but I4s are improving. Honda's I4s are of course some of the smoothest, especially in cars like the CR-V and TSX.
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03-22-10, 08:22 AM
#65
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Honda has stated they are going to make a new hybrid system for Acuras ala what Lexus started doing 5 years ago. That is all I said.
03-22-10, 11:54 AM
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Lexus will likely change the way they do hybrids...GSh will likely be mid level next time around
What makes everyone think Acura will follow Lexus?
Surely I doubt Acura will offer a brand new model hybrid.... the MDX will copy the RX.....but the TL may get a hybrid option...
This is all of course, IMO
03-23-10, 11:17 AM
#67
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Hey, I am not trying to start anything here but I am just stating the obvious. While Lexus is the leader in Hybrid cars for the luxury segment, neither Benz or BMW have actually followed Lexus' in hybrid...BMW and Merc have done hybrids a different way all together....BMW and Merc are not range topping with their hybrids....Lexus is range topping....it is very hard to compare and S class hybrid with the LS hybrid....totally different ways of presenting Hybrids to the consumer...As for the HS250, the HS is a dedicated hybrid, the jury is still out in regards to the HS being a fail or not...right now it doesn't look so good....perhaps Lexus would of been better off offering a hybrid ES....kind of like how Toyota offers a hybrid Camry.
Lexus will likely change the way they do hybrids...GSh will likely be mid level next time around
What makes everyone think Acura will follow Lexus?
Surely I doubt Acura will offer a brand new model hybrid.... the MDX will copy the RX.....but the TL may get a hybrid option...
This is all of course, IMO
Lexus will likely change the way they do hybrids...GSh will likely be mid level next time around
What makes everyone think Acura will follow Lexus?
Surely I doubt Acura will offer a brand new model hybrid.... the MDX will copy the RX.....but the TL may get a hybrid option...
This is all of course, IMO
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...cura-line.html
They are behind as usual and will be nearly a decade behind Lexus with hybrids. The Germans followed Lexus with hybrids I don't care what their method is. I like hybrids and think its great they are coming from others, clearly they feel there is a market for them. While I might not agree with some hybrid methods they are learning experiences in some cases.
Double standard? So Lexus copies the Germans with the IS-F and LS etc but the Germans don't copy Lexus hybrids? Seriously?
03-23-10, 11:25 AM
#68
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I think the price premium is obvious. Mild or full-hybrid, you can't produce a vehicle with combination gas/electric motors, advanced computerization, and a big battery power-pack for the same price as its conventional equivalent. The Honda Insight kept the cost down to the 19-20K range (to start), but did it through small size, some cheap interior materials, and equipment decontenting to compensate for the expensive drivetrain. And, even so, the Insight still shows excellent overall build quality and slick *****/controls.
03-23-10, 12:02 PM
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What about the Malibu? It commanded a premium of $1700ish dollars. Not too shabby. Obviously it didn't return the greatest fuel economy gains given the 4 spd auto, however had GM marketed this vehicle on TV I think it would have sold better. I am interested in its return.
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