GX 460 4/19 VSC recall (Consumer Reports "don't buy" label lifted 5/7)
04-13-10, 10:00 AM
#46
I never said it wasn't an issue, it is and needs to be fixed ('save' the car sooner) but 'safety risk' needs to quantified with an actual number of likelihood to occur. .
What speed would initiate a large enough oversteer to cause a slide?
What speed would initiate a roll over if an object was bumped during the slide (if it occurs)
Is either a real life driving situation?
What speed would initiate a large enough oversteer to cause a slide?
What speed would initiate a roll over if an object was bumped during the slide (if it occurs)
Is either a real life driving situation?
04-13-10, 10:40 AM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
you know whats funny is like 3 months ago on a saturday morning I was driving to work in the left lane. 2 lanes over there was a lady in a white GX. I dont know how she lost control but the next thing I knew was her car had over steered and she was heading right for me. I swerved to the left and floored it and watched as she spun , skidded ,and stopped in the shoulder. I think she swerved and then over corrected. Thats what happens when you put makeup on in the car
04-13-10, 11:29 AM
#50
People are too reliant on electronic gadgets. My very first car was a SUV with no stability control and this issue has occurred numerous of times both in the wet and in the dry and I had always been able to control the car despite myself being a new driver even if the rear was kicked out to an extreme. I in general do not like SUVs which is why I do not have one now, but I am sure people who drive SUVs know of the decrease maneuverability of them.
04-13-10, 11:35 AM
#51
Lexus Test Driver
People are too reliant on electronic gadgets. My very first car was a SUV with no stability control and this issue has occurred numerous of times both in the wet and in the dry and I had always been able to control the car despite myself being a new driver even if the rear was kicked out to an extreme. I in general do not like SUVs which is why I do not have one now, but I am sure people who drive SUVs know of the decrease maneuverability of them.
Not pointing at Lexus in particular, most Luxury brands use their safety gadgets as selling \ marketing points, the consumer is dropping 55k on this SUV buying into the hype of all those gadgets making their automobile more safe.
04-13-10, 11:59 AM
#52
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First off, the 4Runner is NOT affected. For those jumping to conclusions that Lexus should get rid of the GX or that it has a suspension/tire issue, that's incorrect.
The 4Runner using the SAME platform/chassis does not exhibit this problem.
Clearly, this is a problem that is unique to the GX and the way the stability control behaves.
I'm seeing this news spreading like fire in the media. Toyota needs to fix this quick!
Totally agreed.
What I don't understand is that KDSS is standard, so the GX should not be leaning so much. Or is KDSS performing at the limit in this scenario and keeping all 4 tires on the ground
?
KDSS is standard on the new GX460.
The 4Runner using the SAME platform/chassis does not exhibit this problem.
Clearly, this is a problem that is unique to the GX and the way the stability control behaves.
I'm seeing this news spreading like fire in the media. Toyota needs to fix this quick!
sigh, another bad press on toyota, they definitely need to get things together...
this is not about how a car is driven, it's about how the car reacts when it's likely to be driven not the way it should be, ie an accident situation. it's all about how toyota tunes the system and activate the stability control. they can definitely activate the system earlier (if needed) and take control on the car, rather than letting it continue to slide.
toyota has even more work to do
this is not about how a car is driven, it's about how the car reacts when it's likely to be driven not the way it should be, ie an accident situation. it's all about how toyota tunes the system and activate the stability control. they can definitely activate the system earlier (if needed) and take control on the car, rather than letting it continue to slide.
toyota has even more work to do
What I don't understand is that KDSS is standard, so the GX should not be leaning so much. Or is KDSS performing at the limit in this scenario and keeping all 4 tires on the ground
?KDSS is standard on the new GX460.
04-13-10, 12:19 PM
#53
would be nice to see a video of the other SUVs to see how a SUV "should" look like doing that maneuver. The 4Runner apparently works which the GX is based off.
Lift-throttle oversteer because the weight shifted to the front during a turn? Welcome to RWD vehicles.
what?
We hope Toyota fixes these problems so you can lull yourself into a false sense of security, drive more recklessly, and depend on an ESC system instead of your own skill, get into an accident, and sue Toyota
How did we ever survive without ESC?
Lift-throttle oversteer because the weight shifted to the front during a turn? Welcome to RWD vehicles.
In real-world driving, lift-off oversteer could occur when a driver enters a highway’s exit ramp or drives through a sweeping turn and encounters an unexpected obstacle or suddenly finds that the turn is too tight for the vehicle’s speed. A natural impulse is to quickly lift off the accelerator pedal. If that were to happen in the GX, the rear could slide around far enough that a wheel could strike a curb or slide off the pavement.
Current GX 460 owners: If you own a 2010 Lexus GX 460, we recommend exercising care when exiting the highway or traveling twisty roads. Obeying the speed limit and being alert for potential road hazards should limit the risk of experiencing a problem, like that recorded at the test track. We hope that Toyota can quickly develop a software update for the stability control system and update current models with revised programming.
Current GX 460 owners: If you own a 2010 Lexus GX 460, we recommend exercising care when exiting the highway or traveling twisty roads. Obeying the speed limit and being alert for potential road hazards should limit the risk of experiencing a problem, like that recorded at the test track. We hope that Toyota can quickly develop a software update for the stability control system and update current models with revised programming.
We hope Toyota fixes these problems so you can lull yourself into a false sense of security, drive more recklessly, and depend on an ESC system instead of your own skill, get into an accident, and sue Toyota
How did we ever survive without ESC?
04-13-10, 12:19 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
But I wouldn't expect the body roll to be anything less than a non-KDSS vehicle with the exact same roll bars. From a body roll/sway bar standpoint, the advantage with KDSS is the ability to decouple sway bars for better offroad articulation.
I agree with you, something with how the stability management system is behaving is causing this.
04-13-10, 12:28 PM
#55
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CR would **** their pants seeing how the GX, Prado, Montero, Pajero, Xtrail, Petrol, etc are driven overseas.
I know I did. Never was a fan of the GX/Prado until I visited Jamrock and I was in utter amazement how people drove these SUVs with 7 people in them on awful roads and in the mountains.
Hell they drift buses and trucks filled with people. It was utterly amazing to watch quite frankly.
I have yet to drive the 460 but if I did I wouldn't really push it at all here. The ones I've seen so far have been at the mall.
To me its just beat up Toyota or save Toyota (like MT placing the Camry first last month).
I know I did. Never was a fan of the GX/Prado until I visited Jamrock and I was in utter amazement how people drove these SUVs with 7 people in them on awful roads and in the mountains.
Hell they drift buses and trucks filled with people. It was utterly amazing to watch quite frankly.
I have yet to drive the 460 but if I did I wouldn't really push it at all here. The ones I've seen so far have been at the mall.
To me its just beat up Toyota or save Toyota (like MT placing the Camry first last month).
People are too reliant on electronic gadgets. My very first car was a SUV with no stability control and this issue has occurred numerous of times both in the wet and in the dry and I had always been able to control the car despite myself being a new driver even if the rear was kicked out to an extreme. I in general do not like SUVs which is why I do not have one now, but I am sure people who drive SUVs know of the decrease maneuverability of them.
Driver aids will never replace a capable driver.
04-13-10, 12:44 PM
#56
Pole Position
Well whether we should rely on it or not, the government is mandating it to be standard equipment on all cars.
So whether you like it or not, Big Bro is making us drive with it.
Hopefully a quick reflash is all that is needed and we can simply move on before this snowballs any more than necessary. Toyota really doesn't need any more of this right now.
So whether you like it or not, Big Bro is making us drive with it.
Hopefully a quick reflash is all that is needed and we can simply move on before this snowballs any more than necessary. Toyota really doesn't need any more of this right now.
04-13-10, 12:52 PM
#57
People are too reliant on electronic gadgets. My very first car was a SUV with no stability control and this issue has occurred numerous of times both in the wet and in the dry and I had always been able to control the car despite myself being a new driver even if the rear was kicked out to an extreme. I in general do not like SUVs which is why I do not have one now, but I am sure people who drive SUVs know of the decrease maneuverability of them.
When I drive my uncle's 1994 4runner (stick shift!), I take corners slowly because it always feels like its going to tip over. My other uncle's 1990 Ford Explorer (again stick shift) is a lot more stable on corners.
My '89 240sx doesn't have ABS!
04-13-10, 03:16 PM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Ok, now we have all kinds of trivia and the usual internet stuff posted, lol. Yes, no kidding it has a high center of gravity, not unlike many SUVs that behave better. Programming fixes to the vehicle stability management system can easily rectify this behavior.
The stability control systems should intervene more aggressively to minimize this kind of oversteer. Some sports and pony cars allow a certain measured degree of oversteer (less aggressive stability management up to a point), but that's not the kind of behavior that's preferred on a SUV or truck.
Of course nobody should drive at excessive speeds on a racetrack with this kind of vehicle. But the point here is that at typical highway speeds in an emergency evasive the vehicle might exhibit marginally dangerous behavior. SUV's and trucks that tend to get sideways often "trip" on objects such as curbs and soft shoulders resulting in rollovers.
The stability control systems should intervene more aggressively to minimize this kind of oversteer. Some sports and pony cars allow a certain measured degree of oversteer (less aggressive stability management up to a point), but that's not the kind of behavior that's preferred on a SUV or truck.
Of course nobody should drive at excessive speeds on a racetrack with this kind of vehicle. But the point here is that at typical highway speeds in an emergency evasive the vehicle might exhibit marginally dangerous behavior. SUV's and trucks that tend to get sideways often "trip" on objects such as curbs and soft shoulders resulting in rollovers.
04-13-10, 03:21 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
People are too reliant on electronic gadgets. My very first car was a SUV with no stability control and this issue has occurred numerous of times both in the wet and in the dry and I had always been able to control the car despite myself being a new driver even if the rear was kicked out to an extreme. I in general do not like SUVs which is why I do not have one now, but I am sure people who drive SUVs know of the decrease maneuverability of them.
04-13-10, 03:32 PM
#60
Guest
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I guess if anything I would expect the last model to be the "dangerous" one, it sits taller with a taller center of gravity with less tech I believe.
The new one is lower, with a lower center of gravity with more tech and all of a sudden CR says its "dangerous".
We have seen for ourselves in the Toyota witchhunt that multiple sources were doing whatever it took to make Toyota look bad and sell newspapers/get web hits.
I would like to see all the SUVs tested and vids of each.
Its not coincidence to me that they found something wrong. Sorry.
The new one is lower, with a lower center of gravity with more tech and all of a sudden CR says its "dangerous".
We have seen for ourselves in the Toyota witchhunt that multiple sources were doing whatever it took to make Toyota look bad and sell newspapers/get web hits.
I would like to see all the SUVs tested and vids of each.
Its not coincidence to me that they found something wrong. Sorry.