mmarshall

So.....are you saying, then, that the current RL would sell better if its name was Legend, instead? If so, I can't necesarily disagree....you may be right. But IF that is the case, then it would show that, with the general public, cars sell more from name recognition than from actual substance and merit. That is not the way, IMO, that cars should be judged....but of course, not everyone operates that way.

joe80

one great designer can change everything. just look at what Peter Schreyer is doing for Kia. people are waiting for Optima to come out. whenever was last time people were dying to see Kia?

it's kinda hopeless for acura, but i think they can turn it around if they can fix the design. it's safe to say they won't be tier 1 anytime soon, but 200k is doable if they start making good looking cars. it will be interesting to see what the new TSX, TL, MDX and etc will look like. whenever they introduce these new cars, we will know if they can hit 200k or not.

-J-P-L-

Styling is certainly Acura's (and Honda's) biggest problem right now.
Everything else is secondary.

I'm a bit confused with some of the arguments. They are conflicting. Many continue to complain about the lack of elements that don't sell that well in the real world. Which is V-8's, a new NSX, and RWD (especially when you get AWD in all but the TSX), and a true RL flagship for $70K. All in an attempt to make Acura tier 1. None of those things are going to sell.

Then there's arguments to bring back volume models like the Integra. Volume should be left to Honda. Acura and Honda pricing is already overlapping in a few areas. Why blur it more and cheapen Acura's image even more. There's a clear reason why they dropped Integra/RSX.

I say stay a "value luxury" brand but build respect through great styling, smarter products (no ZDX), leading efficiency, and continued quality. Face it, they can never be Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes. Why waste time and try to be?

mmarshall

Maybe. Auto execs are notorious for saying one thing in public and then quietly admitting, later, that their critics were right.

IS-SV

Yes, especially Acura execs for sure.

mmarshall

You yourself just stated it.....image. Image, unfortunately, often predominates in the auto buisness, even over the unargued sales success that the Integra was. And the company paid for it. In this case, losing the Integra didn't help Acura....the former Integra customers simply went somewhere else, and took their $$$$ with them. In fact, it's fair to say that, in the American market, if it wasn't for the ever-popular MDX, which still sells in decent numbers, Acura would have a fairly tough time just staying in buisness right now. The RL, though IMO a superb car, just isn't making it in the sales numbers. The even slower-selling NSX is (apparantly) gone. The smaller RDX, though with turbo-quick performance and (by SUV standards) a well-sporting chassis, has a stiff ride that turns some people off and is generally overshadowed by the larger, more popular MDX. The TSX is a nice smallish sedan, but doesn't seem to be attracting as many customers in the former version did, perhaps due to its more stark, plastic interior (maybe the upcoming Sportwagon will broaden its appeal). The RL, though a good car under the skin, has a skin that only a mother could love. And the new ZDX would test even a mother's love.

IS-SV

Guilty as charged, I did exactly what you described and have never had any interest in owning any Acura since them.

Yes, sure some of it is buyers moving upmarket as income levels and wealth increased over the years. But some it is buyers looking at current Acura products and not even bothering to consider the mostly weak lineup. So in short Acura's problems go way beyond the lack of an Integra.

mmarshall

That's certainly not a crime, so you aren't "guilty". I was very disappointed, myself when the Integra was dropped, for several reasons. I came very close to buying one, myself, in 1995, when I got my new Celica. The Celica won out for a couple of reasons, but I thought the Integra, in many areas, had even better build quality, except perhaps for Toyota's better paint job and automatic-transmission smoothness.

As far as not having any interest in any other Acura since then, though, have you test-driven an RDX? It does have a rather stiff ride, but, from your posts, you don't seem as sensitive as I am to ride stiffness. Because of the turbo, it has something that very few VTEC Honda/Acura 4-cylinders have......TORQUE, even at low RPM, without a lot of turbo lag. And you would be surprised at its quick steering response.


The obvious problems, of course, are the parrot-beaks and ugly styling in general. The ZDX's rear-roofline is ludicrous. As far as the lack of V8, AWD, and 6-speeds go, that, of course, is debatable.....opinions generally differ more on that than they do on the styling.

IS-SV

Good question, since I tend to have a AWD SUV as extra/3rd vehicle. No I haven't driven the RDX, I have no interest in this vehicle and am not surprised by its lack of sales results.

I have driven the current CRV and actually prefer the styling (unlike some) and practicality over the RDX. I do see why it's a standout sales success for Honda.

But more on topic, since Acura tries to position itself as a wannabe premium car maker, the lack of DI, lack of RWD sport sedan chassis, lack of DOHC V6, lack of DOHC V8, lack of 6/7/8 speed auto trannys, plus ugly styling, are all factors contributing to lack of sales results.

mmarshall

I'll agree there, on the practicality. I'd probably choose a CR-V myself for most daily-driving, except that the CR-V's N/A 4-banger might be a little underpowered with a full load in hilly terrain.

IS-SV

Yes, performance is not unlike a normally aspirated 4-banger Subie wagon.

My preference is for more power too, but since I usually have 2 more powerful whips in the garage, it's not a factor for my extra vehicle/SUV.

Fizzboy7

That's an interesting move. Keyes, who has always aggressively invested in hot brands, usually stays ontop these things. To hand it over to a BMW dealership surprises me. The question I have is, if Center thinks it can make it work, why couldn't Keyes?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lol we thinking the same thing. keyes just opened their chrysler (iirc) dealership, but dumped the acura. that says a lot about how they feel about acura i guess. i was kind of surprised center took it too. i wonder what's the deal behind (obvious keyes don't see acura as that profitable)

LexFather

Don't forget the dealership in Vancouver, Canada that dropped Acura for Kia...now the Acura owners have to get serviced at Honda.

DustinV

My sister could become an Acura owner in the future. She's looking for a new car to replace her IS250. Top on her list is a vehicle from Acura.