Official: Mercedes' new 4.7L TTV8 and 3.5L V6
05-05-10, 02:26 PM
#31
All MPLexus301 said was the fact that M-B's new 3.5L V6 is simply making what Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Ford, GM has done for several years already or recently, and that is not impressive. Whether the old engine is adequate is not the point. To me the 2.5L V6 in Lexus IS250 is definitely adequate, but is it better than the 3.5L V6 in IS350? Probably not. Merely looking at peak horsepower is not enough to judge the competency of an engine, yet it is one yardstick every car buyer don't miss. In order to compete, you have to match your rivals, if not outstrip them. The old 3.5L engine from 2010 C350 is making 268hp, that is about what 2003 Infiniti G35 made. It is great news that M-B is finally offering this more than adequate engine in their 2011 vehicles, it is by no means flabberghasting. 306hp is good and probably the max a naturally aspirated engine with 3.5L displacement could attain nowadays, but not impressive anymore. M-B should have done it sooner, at least 2010 E-class should have gotten it.
05-05-10, 02:38 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
All MPLexus301 said was the fact that M-B's new 3.5L V6 is simply making what Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Ford, GM has done for several years already or recently, and that is not impressive. Whether the old engine is adequate is not the point. To me the 2.5L V6 in Lexus IS250 is definitely adequate, but is it better than the 3.5L V6 in IS350? Probably not. Merely looking at peak horsepower is not enough to judge the competency of an engine, yet it is one yardstick every car buyer don't miss. In order to compete, you have to match your rivals, if not outstrip them. The old 3.5L engine from 2010 C350 is making 268hp, that is about what 2003 Infiniti G35 made. It is great news that M-B is finally offering this more than adequate engine in their 2011 vehicles, it is by no means flabberghasting. 306hp is good and probably the max a naturally aspirated engine with 3.5L displacement could attain nowadays, but not impressive anymore. M-B should have done it sooner, at least 2010 E-class should have gotten it.
The funny thing is it didn't matter as the C-class sold like hotcakes with its less powerful V-6. Now with HP finally where the others are it makes an even more compelling purchase.
05-05-10, 02:39 PM
#34
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The new V6 is finally on par with everyone else's (with Lexus's being the first to crack 300hp). The new V8 TT sounds pretty decent, but I'm guessing Lexus doesn't want to touch turbos because of the higher noise level and potentially higher reliability issues, which are against what the marque is known for. Plus Lexus's V8 hybrid makes more power than MB's V8 TT already anyway. All Lexus needs to do now is to upgrade the V8 hybrid to use Li-ion batteries and make it available to the lower models/trims and it'll be competitive against the V8 TT from BMW and MB once again.
05-05-10, 02:46 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
All MPLexus301 said was the fact that M-B's new 3.5L V6 is simply making what Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Ford, GM has done for several years already or recently, and that is not impressive. Whether the old engine is adequate is not the point. To me the 2.5L V6 in Lexus IS250 is definitely adequate, but is it better than the 3.5L V6 in IS350? Probably not. Merely looking at peak horsepower is not enough to judge the competency of an engine, yet it is one yardstick every car buyer don't miss. In order to compete, you have to match your rivals, if not outstrip them. The old 3.5L engine from 2010 C350 is making 268hp, that is about what 2003 Infiniti G35 made. It is great news that M-B is finally offering this more than adequate engine in their 2011 vehicles, it is by no means flabberghasting. 306hp is good and probably the max a naturally aspirated engine with 3.5L displacement could attain nowadays, but not impressive anymore. M-B should have done it sooner, at least 2010 E-class should have gotten it.
btw, Mercedes has 2 lucrative and strong selling cars already (C-class and E-class) so the improvements are best done before the sales erosion. Regardless it takes more than winning the horsepower race to sell premium cars in volume (other factors carry a lot of weight too) and as of today Mercedes has grown sales with engines generating only so-so output.
05-05-10, 04:30 PM
#37
It's the same reason why BMW's 335i is rated at 300 HP by BMW, but the actual output is in the 320-330 range. 300 even apparently works better for marketing purposes.
05-05-10, 05:02 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The TT V8 from Benz certainly sounds impressive, more so than the V6.
This is starting to sound like a broken record 
. Lexus could have extracted more power out of their 306 HP 3.5L V6, but they didn't. BMW could have easily extracted a lot more power out of their 320 HP 3.0L turbo I6, but they didn't.
The industry does not operate on hopes, dreams, or "what ifs".
It's irrelevant what Mercedes could have done, or what potential the engine has.
This is what Mercedes has released to market, and this is what they have to offer right now.
The fuel economy that Benz is claiming for the V6 does sound impressive, but these are Benz estimates. We need to wait for final EPA figures to make an apples-to-apples comparison.
The new V6 isn't impressive because of the "306-horsepower" output? Huh? 
I don't seriously see anyone in this niche going for more power from now on. Fuel economy is the new priority and 306-horsepower are already overpowered for any vehicle.
As I said before in the Shooting Break thread. MB could easily have extracted more power from this V6. They just didn't.
I don't seriously see anyone in this niche going for more power from now on. Fuel economy is the new priority and 306-horsepower are already overpowered for any vehicle.
As I said before in the Shooting Break thread. MB could easily have extracted more power from this V6. They just didn't.
. Lexus could have extracted more power out of their 306 HP 3.5L V6, but they didn't. BMW could have easily extracted a lot more power out of their 320 HP 3.0L turbo I6, but they didn't. The industry does not operate on hopes, dreams, or "what ifs".
It's irrelevant what Mercedes could have done, or what potential the engine has.
This is what Mercedes has released to market, and this is what they have to offer right now.
The fuel economy that Benz is claiming for the V6 does sound impressive, but these are Benz estimates. We need to wait for final EPA figures to make an apples-to-apples comparison.
05-05-10, 05:13 PM
#39
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 0
Received 73 Likes
on
44 Posts
they have with-held this long because they claim something about the grade of gas we get in the US isnt good with their engine, and then im betting cost has a lot of do with it.
here is where they stand
they cant put the new 3.5 in the E class because then the 1st year buyers will call foul play
they cant put the new 3.5 in the C class even though its time for a refresh because they cant have the C overpowering the E
so what's left? I guess the C and E wont see it for some time and these two engines will be put in the new CLS, and the new M
here is where they stand
they cant put the new 3.5 in the E class because then the 1st year buyers will call foul play
they cant put the new 3.5 in the C class even though its time for a refresh because they cant have the C overpowering the E
so what's left? I guess the C and E wont see it for some time and these two engines will be put in the new CLS, and the new M
05-05-10, 05:27 PM
#40
they have with-held this long because they claim something about the grade of gas we get in the US isnt good with their engine, and then im betting cost has a lot of do with it.
here is where they stand
they cant put the new 3.5 in the E class because then the 1st year buyers will call foul play
they cant put the new 3.5 in the C class even though its time for a refresh because they cant have the C overpowering the E
so what's left? I guess the C and E wont see it for some time and these two engines will be put in the new CLS, and the new M
here is where they stand
they cant put the new 3.5 in the E class because then the 1st year buyers will call foul play
they cant put the new 3.5 in the C class even though its time for a refresh because they cant have the C overpowering the E
so what's left? I guess the C and E wont see it for some time and these two engines will be put in the new CLS, and the new M
i think it's ok to just update the engine when it's ready, no point to wait anyway, one way or the other some customers will be mad. just like the 5 series, the 535 came out mid cycle i think?
05-05-10, 05:46 PM
#41
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hybrid-like jumps in fuel economy, 22 percent and 24 percent respectively.
Those numbers are not official EPA numbers, but are Mercedes' own estimates.
05-05-10, 06:55 PM
#42
Everyone thats complaining about MB taking too long to make this engine, keep in mind, MB is not that big of a company compared to Toyota, and they can't be working on all of their engines at the same time. They concentrated on many of their V8's and diesels, now they took care of the V6 front. Meanwhile Toyota was concentrating on the V6's and hybrids, hopefully with updated V8's coming out soon.
At least MB and Toyota are usually solid when it comes to engine engineering. They don't do overclocking like Infiniti and BMW, and don't overrate their engines on paper like Acura.
At least MB and Toyota are usually solid when it comes to engine engineering. They don't do overclocking like Infiniti and BMW, and don't overrate their engines on paper like Acura.
05-05-10, 08:37 PM
#43
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a valid point, but BMW seems to have managed. Nevertheless, MB also charges more than Lexus...and BMW...and Audi and Acura and Caddy.
05-05-10, 09:25 PM
#44
Well its not really correct to compare a TT engine to NA engine. Also, BMW does not have as many engines as MB, and their TT 3.0 engine isn't really new, its what I call an "overclocked" version of their NA engine (which has dismal power output btw) that is tuned purely for performance with very little regard for anything else.
The lease deals on E350 are actually cheaper than GS350