IS-SV

The facts are conclusive, thanks.

One car is a failure from a business standpoint alone.

tex2670

To be fair to both sides, if the RL is a more direct competitor to the GS, then the GS's sales should be included too (per the May Sales Thread):

GS: 771/2,947

Of course, to be fair, those numbers would also include the GS460, which shouldn't be compared to the 6-cyl RL--but even if the GS350 was 50% of sales (probably a higher %), it's still way more than the RL. I didn't see the Infiniti M sales numbers in that thread, but with the 2011 M out, I think the 2010 numbers would be skewed (but I'd still rather have a 2010 M over an RL).

mmarshall

Depends on what you mean by "overpriced". In my case, for example, 50K is simply more than I care to spend on a new car (which would probably be 35-40K max). So, a brand-new RL is out of the question for me....I can afford one, if I wanted it, but simply don't care to spend that much on a car. And, in general, I stick with new cars.

But, if I WERE spending 50K on a new car, you can bet the monthly rent that one of three vehicles would be in my condo parking space....a new RL, a Lexus GS AWD, or an AWD BMW 335xi, though I have some reservations about the BMW's electrical and fuel-pump reliability. But, in general, I find those three vehicles the three best on the road for 50K brand-new.

(for 40-45K, BTW, if I chose to spend that, I'd choose a new Lexus RX350)

mmarshall

The RL interior certainly does have its share of "flash", if by "flash" you mean an impressive level of trim and tastefulness. It doesn't have a lot of "flash" chrome, though (or at least not as much), as, say, the new Jaguar XJ I reviewed a couple of days ago. But the RL interior is exceedingly well-built, and gives a feeling of solidness like few other new vehicles today.

The exterior, of course, is rather muted in its design (Accord-like is probably the best way to describe it). There, I agree....you don't see much "flash".

IS-SV

^^^Exactly, the choices listed (GS AWD, 335Xi, RX350 AWD) and some others are all better use of that kind of automotive money. Obviously selective buyers have decided in droves to select something other than the RL.

mmarshall

I don't think it's quite that simple. One other factor, today, that is probably depressing RL sales is that a number of Acura designs, today (especially with the ZDX, TL front AND rear, and parrot-beak grilles across the board) are simply so ugly and/or awkward-looking that they are keeping out (or driving away) potential Acura shoppers who aren't going to the showrooms to look at Acuras in the first place. If you don't go to an Acura shop to start with, you're probably not going to see the flagship, of course.

And, judging by what Acuras today DO sell, most of those potential who DO go to an Acura shop are coming home with MDX's. But then, again, that's not surprising....the MDX is a totally different vehicle than the RL, and appeals (mostly) to those cross-shopping the Lexus RX, its prime competitor. It's a sad fact, though, that the Acura stylists have hurt the company's image......and all of the models, except maybe the MDX, are suffering for it, although that alone doesn't account for the RL's low sales.


Incendentally I (and ironically), that's one choice where I do agree with you.....given the choice, I'd take an RX over the MDX, for several reasons.

Like many CL posters, I was rather ho-hum in my opinion of the 2Gen, AWD RL, too, at first, as I initially didn't care for it as much as the plush-seat, soft-riding, Buick-Like FWD 1Gen model. But when I went to review it, the 2Gen model amazed me with its build quality and the competence of the SH-AWD system......still does today, though, for me, 50K is probably out of the question.

IS-SV

All that is speculation, and it can be made into complicated speculation if desired. It doesn't really matter what we think, because the 2 of us haven't owned a Acura product for over a decade. No doubt a slew of factors led to the failed status of the RL today.

But the fact remains, none of the competition is selling these cars at a ultra low rate of 170 units/month.

mmarshall

After all of the other companies we've lost lately (Olds, Plymouth, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, Isuzu, and now Mercury), the last thing I personally want to see is another division fold. But, sadly, the Acura stylists have screwed up the company up so much (your opinion noted, but I still think that is their main problem, speculation or not), that I'm begining to think that Honda may be better off just dropping the division and marketing the former Acura products as up-market Hondas, under the Honda nameplates (and, yes, with more-conventional Honda grilles instead of the parrot-beaks). Honda, of course, does this in a number of other countries.....the Acura nameplate is not used world-wide. The MDX continues to sell under the Acura nameplate, but, IMO, would probably sell just as well as a Honda.

Even doing that, though, carries somewhat of a risk. Mazda ended up selling the upmarket Millenia under its own nameplate, even though it was originally designed for Mazda's Amanti luxury division that Ford cancelled. Toyota sold the upmarket Avalon under its own nameplate instead of making it a Lexus. And Hyundai is marketing the upcoming Equus as a Hyundai instead of waiting for its own luxury division to debut. The Millenia was ultimately not a success; the Avalon, while successful, has never come close to Camry's sales, and only time will tell for the Equus.

In fact, that gives me an idea...........I think I'm going to start another thread on it.

IS-SV

Yes, I see your points on above.

IMO, I don't see the failure of the RL and RDX leading to a shutdown of Acura division.

But Acura as a tier 1 premium car maker seems to be a fading possibility....

CDNROCKIES

What kind of logic is this?

So you're willing to pay $10-15K for the emblem on the hood? Kinda screams badge hoor.

Och

iTrader: (3)

The one thing that surprises me about the new RL, is that its resale value stays relatively high on the used market.

KILLERGS4

Acura RL is for the inconspicuous Luxury car buyer. "Most" peeps who spend 50k+ don't want to be inconspicuous. Therefore RL = FAIL, even though I like the car for what it is. Plus, didn't the Accord copy/took RL platform not the other way around? Because the RL was out sooner (2005), and only the Newer Bigger (2008) Accord uses the same platform???

wmb0000

I think he meant to say is we all value things differently. What is valuable to you does not meant it contain the same value to me.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

laughable that a bland overpriced car with so few sales evokes a 3 page thread on a lexus forum.

the rl has a NICE interior (way nicer IMO than an ES and competitive at least with GS). the rl exterior is weak - wherever it isn't bland (front), it's ugly.

it's also too small to sell at its price point.

when i see one on the road from behind it though, it looks nice. but not 55k nice.

lexmenow

I love the 05-08 rl they look nice but the new acuras are garbage how did this crap make it past r&d. Must be politics involved cause there is no common sense in this design.