Mister Two

Sad that Toyota's quality is now below the industry average and those of most of its competing brands (Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Ford, etc.), although it's the vehicle dependability study that should truly matter.

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

OK Lexus, lets take it up a notch! With all the competition getting better by the minute you need to make strides in other areas along with your outstanding quality to set yourself apart from the masses again. The equuis coming soon to undercut your price advantage so lets blow them all out the water with the next LS. Lets go!! Lets go!!!

IS-SV

It's not bashing or negative talk, it's pointing out the pros and cons of Acura, especially when compared to the other successful premium cars that they like to be compared to.

For example:

Pros: Quality (as pointed out by JD Powers)

Cons: ugly styling, lack of DOHC V6, lack of optional DOHC V8's, lack of 6/7/8 speed modern transmissions, lack of successful flagship car, lack of RWD chassis for sport sedans, subpar performance and fuel economy in many models, etc.

mmarshall

I addressed that in my reply to Mike. Perhaps (?) I used, at least partially, the wrong term.



Agreed. I have some respect for J.D. Power, but a lot more for Consumer Reports.



I'll agree that the styling is poor, but 5-speed autos and the lack of a V8, IMO, are not Cardinal sins. Nissa/Infiniti, like Acura, uses some great VQ V6 powerplants in the 270-310 HP range in their products, and they work very well. Some manufacturers, especially in lower-line vehicles, still use 4-speed autos, but I agree that they should be scrapped....the ratios are too wide, especially between 3rd and 4th. I won't get into the fuel-economy issues, because there are too may diffeerent factors that afect it.

IS-SV

Exactly, and all that stuff above compares Acura to a bunch of non-tier 1 premium cars (not Lexus, Mercedes, BMW).

Valid fuel economy comparison can be made via EPA data, agreed all other estimates should be taken casually.

Performance (straight-line performance) of Acura products is often subpar, makes us wonder about validity of engine output claims.

Back to OP's topic, Acura quality hasn't slipped, it's improved.

mmarshall

With N/A, non-turbo V6s, often usually lags HP by about 20-30. That seems to be the case with both Acura and Nissan/Infiniti V6s. Part of the Nissan advantage in 0-60 is, of course, the CVTs, not just 6-speeds.

Yes, it has.......with J.D. Power. With CR, it's always been good.

IS-SV

Acura's V6's (specifically) lower output for given engine size and performance results from dated engines lacking direct injection, lacking DOHC heads combined with dated auto trannys lacking 6/7/8 forward speeds.

DrDrilZ

how long is "initial" in terms of their study? 3 mo, 6 mo, one year? id bet that porsches are, on average, driven the fewest miles of any of those car makes. id say most are not daily drivers. and since the mileage is low, problems just havent surfaced yet. thats my take on how porsche is consistently near the top in this initial quality study.

-J-P-L-

I've never taken this study too seriously. It's fundamentally flawed in a number of ways perhaps most particularly because "problems" aren't defined and also that cars like Porsche's that are barely driven are put against daily drivers. The study doesn't measure mileage, only a short time period where most cars barely have any problems anyway. And if there is a problem, it's usually extremely trivial when the car is this new. In this study, a transmission failure rates the same as a burnt out tail light.

Most of today's car's "quality" doesn't shine until well past 100,000 miles.

My Yaris has 85,000 miles and not a single problem or repair yet. Who cares about how the car does in its first year.

Plus, look at the small differences throughout the list. There really isn't a big difference between the top and bottom and especially throughout the bulk of the average middle section.

Point is, this is a really small indicator of quality. Barely anything to pay real attention too. Hopefully, people don't buy a car based on this list alone.

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

^^^^ +1

CDNROCKIES

I don't disagree with your other points and certainly agree that this report is somewhat flawed and not really important. But I would contend: who cares about the quality of a vehicle past 100 000 miles? The opinion would be very different for mainstream, high volume vehicles versus Tier 1 vehicles. My guess is that most Tier 1 car owners aren't keeping their cars for that kind of mileage so initial quality is rather important.

mmarshall

A good point. Porsches do often to tend to be Garage Queens, especially in the winter with salt and sand on the roads.

IS-SV

Yes, with Porsches annual mileage over 9,000 is considered above average and typically has a negative impact on resale value. Most other cars the average annual mileage is closer to 15,000.

GS69

Mercedes Regains Luster in Quality Survey
Guns 4 the Top Spot

For the first time in 21 years, Mercedes-Benz beat Lexus in one of the industry's most watched initial quality studies. Now it's aiming for the top overall spot.

In the 2010 J.D. Power and Associates U.S. Initial Quality Survey, Mercedes was third, up from sixth in 2009. Lexus plunged from the top slot in 2009 to fourth this year. Porsche AG was first, followed by Honda Motor Co.'s Acura division.

J.D. Power has been conducting the survey for 24 years, and Mercedes-Benz was quality king before Lexus arrived in the United States in 1989. Mercedes was first in initial quality in 1987, dropped to second place in 1988, regained the crown in 1989 and lost it to Lexus in 1990.

In recent years -- especially since the arrival of Mercedes-Benz USA CEO Ernst Lieb -- Daimler AG's Mercedes brand has been hellbent on regaining its premier status in the luxury-car world.

It has overhauled dealer relations, improved manufacturing and engineering, and finetuned other processes to deliver what Mercedes executives describe as "the dream" for customers.

"Are we happy? 3rd is not 1st," Lieb told employees and dealers in a taped address last week. "We are going to try and work hard to be first next year."

Mercedes is also closing in on Lexus as the top-selling luxury brand in the U.S. market. Through May, Lexus sales' stood at 90,098 units, just ahead of Mercedes with sales of 88,010, according to the Automotive News Data Center. BMW is third with year-to-date sales of 81,450 units.

Daimler and Mercedes executives admit they took their eye off Mercedes quality during the tumultuous Chrysler era. In 2006 Mercedes fell to a low of 25th in the J.D. Power ranking.

Lexus has been the leader in the quality study 13 times since 1990. And a J.D. Power official says the brand's tumble wasn't because its quality deteriorated significantly, or because of recalls or the woes of Toyota, its parent company.

David Sargent, vice president global vehicle research for J.D. Power, says Lexus fell in the survey results because “others just got better.”

So what did Mercedes do? It had nearly flawless launches of two redesigned vehicles, the C-class and E-class sedans. And Mercedes made the current-generation M-class SUV nearly bulletproof in its final year, before a redesigned model goes on sale.

“What moved the needle is each (of those three models) improved significantly, and together they are two-thirds of Mercedes-Benz [U.S.] sales,” says Sargent.

“Mercedes Benz has showed good steady improvement, and one of the challenges is they have do it with so many different models.”

In the 2010 study, five Mercedes models placed among the top three in their respective segments.

At Lexus, where there are significantly fewer models, the decline in the quality study wasn't the result of any major problems. In fact, the changes in individual vehicle scores “were fairly marginal,” says Sargent.

The perception of Lexus wasn't clouded significantly by the Toyota recalls. J.D. Power begins its model-year surveys in November and includes vehicles sold through February of the following year. New-car buyers get their surveys three months after their purchase, which means November 2009 buyers answered the questionnaire in February 2010. Only the last wave of Lexus buyers received the questionnaire in May, when Toyota was being grilled in Congress about its safety problems.

LexFather

I realize idiots write these things many times but "plunged" is rather exaggerating and a ridiculous term to use as it dropped measly 4 points while greatly expanding their lineups and continuing to lead with technology. Lexus went from 84 problems last year to 88. Hardly a difference. THen Lexus was third with 99 in 2008 and second with 94 in 2007, both worse than their 88 fourth place finish in 2010.

Its great that Benz improved after being horrid for so many years and this article is more affirmation of the obvious. Lexus is still the quality standard and no one has come close to their record of quality and reliability.