How the Hyundai Equus can succeed
07-11-10, 07:31 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
I keep saying the same thing but ............... .
The Genesis reminds me of a modern day LS400. High quality, has all of the stats to match the competition, BUT everyone thinks its a joke. How quickly some forget the comments of the owners of the premier luxury cars were saying when they Lexus was released. It sounds just like the comments we keep hearing here about the Genesis. If there is anything Lexus has taught us is that Americans want value, reliability, and performance.........not simply the heritage and image that the other brands provided for so many years.
The Genesis reminds me of a modern day LS400. High quality, has all of the stats to match the competition, BUT everyone thinks its a joke. How quickly some forget the comments of the owners of the premier luxury cars were saying when they Lexus was released. It sounds just like the comments we keep hearing here about the Genesis. If there is anything Lexus has taught us is that Americans want value, reliability, and performance.........not simply the heritage and image that the other brands provided for so many years.
The Genesis is nowhere in the ballpark of any LS including the 400. It is clearly targeting the 5 series, E class and GS.
as nice as their new model line up are becoming, I think hyundai is making a huge mistake by not branching off a luxury brand such as the "Genesis".
they could have just made their nicest and biggest dealerships as suppliers for both "genesis" and hyundai..... and leave the remaining little ghetto dealerships for hyundai itself. A marketing team and a few dealerships with upgraded luxury amenities, how much could that have costed them ?
lots of buyers are "brand" chasers and will only buy if it's perceived as a high end brand and that's where hyundai will lose out on when it's all said and done.
they could have just made their nicest and biggest dealerships as suppliers for both "genesis" and hyundai..... and leave the remaining little ghetto dealerships for hyundai itself. A marketing team and a few dealerships with upgraded luxury amenities, how much could that have costed them ?
lots of buyers are "brand" chasers and will only buy if it's perceived as a high end brand and that's where hyundai will lose out on when it's all said and done.
What pokes me with Hyundai is their ad campaign to try and convince drivers their product -is- comparable to Lexus, BMW and MB. With the line-up growing the dealer lots are going o be pretty full. I don't know if Hyundai would benefit form opening a luxo division...yet even more cars to option up in another buyer segment.
So far they hit a price point just below the big brands offerings. IMO, this is a compensation for buyers who want as much car for their $. For buyers of luxury cars, this may not be such an advantage since the criteria is a bit different.
The other is their naming. Toyota and mainstream median to entry level has names. Luxo barges and sporty cars seem t follow the Euro numbering scheme to denote engine displacement and level with letters. Buyers come to associate this segment by that. Equus?
So far they hit a price point just below the big brands offerings. IMO, this is a compensation for buyers who want as much car for their $. For buyers of luxury cars, this may not be such an advantage since the criteria is a bit different.
The other is their naming. Toyota and mainstream median to entry level has names. Luxo barges and sporty cars seem t follow the Euro numbering scheme to denote engine displacement and level with letters. Buyers come to associate this segment by that. Equus?
07-11-10, 10:24 PM
#47
Lexus Champion
I agree with 1SICLEX about Hyundai. They really don't have the big $$ in order to launch a new brand, their price & budget conscious customers are looking for a good value. In the short term, this is probably the best strategy. Hyundai REALLY needs to step up the value in order to make up for the "luxury experience".
I've only seen the EQUUS on the road, but it looks like a very impressive effort from Hyundai. They styling is interesting, but not too out there. The size of the car is about the same as the large luxury sedans.
Competition is a good thing. Look at what the LS400 has done. Everybody steps up their game. We all win.
I've only seen the EQUUS on the road, but it looks like a very impressive effort from Hyundai. They styling is interesting, but not too out there. The size of the car is about the same as the large luxury sedans.
Competition is a good thing. Look at what the LS400 has done. Everybody steps up their game. We all win.
09-13-10, 04:32 PM
#48
Article
SAN FRANCISCO -- Hyundai's hulking Equus sedan, which thrusts the brand into $60,000 prestige-class territory this fall, is being measured against 2 previous leaps of faith in the luxury-car wars -- one a big winner and the other a loser.
So how does the lavishly equipped Equus stack up against those other gambles by volume brands -- Toyota's Lexus LS 400 in 1989 and Volkswagen's Phaeton experiment in 2003?
Favorably, by most accounts. Hyundai has modest volume goals for its big luxury sedan and a plan for getting around the brand's mass-market dealerships.
Also, there's less of a price gap between the Equus and Hyundai's Genesis (which is selling well) than there was between the Phaeton and the VW Passat or between the LS 400 and Toyota's top-of-the-line Cressida sedan back in 1989.
Hyundai's sedan is designed to go head to head against the Lexus, Mercedes and BMW flagship autobahn barges. Its 4.6-liter engine has the appropriate V-8 snarl, the ride is sumptuous, the steering in "sport" mode is precise, the interior controls have the proper soft-touch tactile response, and occupants are swaddled in a herd's worth of hides.
What it boils down to is whether a mass-market Korean brand and its dealers -- just a decade removed from selling low-quality econoboxes and on the brink of abandoning the U.S. market -- really merit consideration as a $60,000 purchase.
"The brand works against them, of course," said Jack Fitzgerald, a multiline dealer in Rockville, Md., who saw the Phaeton flop at his VW store and now will sell the Equus at his Hyundai outlet. "It hasn't become fashionable to drive a Hyundai yet, but it's getting there."
Still, some Hyundai insiders admit to nervousness, fearing it may be too much, too soon. Hyundai actively pursued the notion of opening a separate luxury channel for the car. Some within the U.S. sales arm fought Korea tooth-and-nail to keep the Equus out. Then again, there was a camp within Toyota that didn't want Lexus, either.
Another Phaeton?
The Equus reprises the original Lexus promise of luxury and quality equal to the luxury leaders but at a much lower price. While the 2011 Lexus LS 460 starts at $66,255, with shipping, the Equus is planned to come in comfortably under $60,000. That's Mercedes E550 turf, the same promise Lexus made when it entered the market.
"Lexus, Infiniti and Acura have already shown consumers' willingness to change brands, because they all defected from the Europeans," said Mike O'Brien, Hyundai vice president of product and corporate planning.
O'Brien, a former Toyota executive who began his career at Hyundai, likens the Equus debut to the LS 400 launch.
But others equate the Equus with the failed Phaeton, which was yanked from the U.S. market in 2005 after being on sale for barely 2 years. They say the Teutonic flagship was the height of arrogance from a brand that had no business playing in the rare air of luxury, no matter how good the final product.
Hyundai's U.S. market share this year is 4.7 percent and rising. The brand has 4.2 million vehicles in operation in the United States. By comparison, Toyota's market share when it launched Lexus was 6.4 percent with 8.9 million vehicles in operation. Volkswagen declined to give historical units-in-operation figures but had just 1.5 percent of new-vehicle share in 2004.
Also, the difference in stickers between the Equus and the next-priciest vehicle in the Hyundai lineup isn't as large as when VW launched the Phaeton.
The Genesis sedan starts at $33,800 but climbs to $43,800 with a V-8 engine and options. The Genesis also is a good platform for the Equus. It's keeping pace with the BMW 5 series and easily outsells the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.
Starting at around $60,000, the Equus undercuts today's Lexus LS 460 by at least $6,000. That's before Lexus starts charging for options that are standard on the Equus.
By contrast, the Phaeton's price started at about $70,000 for the V-8 model and grew to more than $100,000 for the 12-cylinder with all-wheel drive. That was a big jump from the $30,000 Passats at the top of the existing VW lineup and more expensive than much of its competition.
And while VW expected 7,500 Phaeton sales a year (it peaked at 1,939 in 2004), Hyundai's U.S. goal is a more modest 2,000 to 3,000.
Dealer Fitzgerald said the Phaeton never had a chance.
"VW made no serious effort to sell the Phaeton," he said. "VW had a lot of internal turmoil going on at the time, a dispute about whether Phaeton should be brought at all. Then they didn't do anything with it once it got here."
Hyundai's brand image is also closer to Toyota circa 1989 than VW's in 2004. Toyota was a mass-market brand on the rise, with luxury-class aspirations. But when it launched the Phaeton, VW didn't try to change its brand message from what the name Volkswagen actually means: "The People's Car."
Fitzgerald sees a distinct difference between the Equus and Phaeton launches.
"I don't think it's a bridge too far for Hyundai," he said. "Hyundai's track record is different from that. They have a plan and they stick with it."
The dealer equation
But while Lexus featured a Taj Majal dealership experience, Equus buyers can do without the dealership altogether. Whether it's for a test drive or oil change, a valet takes care of delivery and retrieval of the Equus from the owner's home or office, with an iPad link serving as the means of communication with the dealership. If it's a service call, the valet leaves a loaner Genesis for the Equus owner.
Among its 790 Hyundai dealers, 250 were allowed to sell the Equus. Each will have a "champion," a staffer devoted to the care and feeding of the handful of Equus owners in his market area. Dealers will have a separate area of the showroom dedicated to the Equus, just in case a customer wanders in.
Still, few Hyundai showrooms can match the amenities or treatment of a Lexus or Mercedes-Benz store. But O'Brien counters: "Would you rather have value for money or a coddling experience?"
Hyundai has performed well in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study and is in the middle of the pack in Power's 3-year durability-index survey. But the brand finished well below average in the 2009 J.D. Power Sales Satisfaction Index, scoring far below even the lowest-scoring luxury brand.
Still, Jeff Schuster, executive director of automotive intelligence at J.D. Power, thinks the Equus will "make some noise" in the luxury segment.
"The whole idea of 'We'll bring it to your house' is a bit more of a commitment," Schuster said.
But is it luxury?
Does the absence of a roundel or a 3-pointed star on the hood disqualify the Equus from being a proper luxury car?
Milton Pedraza, CEO of The Luxury Institute in New York, recommended Hyundai create a new brand for the car when the automaker hired him as a consultant.
"Consumer minds put things in buckets," Pedraza said. "It's a perception issue, not the reality, but perception is reality.
"Hyundai can elevate itself to a premium brand, because quality and nice design are very important to consumers. But the heritage and cachet of a luxury brand takes years and years. Even Lexus is still trying."
The full Hyundai name appears nowhere on the Equus. A winged-icon logo -- unique for the Equus -- is placed on the hood and steering wheel, and only an "Equus" badge appears on the right side of the trunk lid. The only giveaway is a demure Hyundai "H" in the center of the trunk lid.
Jim Hall of the consultancy 2953 Analytics in suburban Detroit thinks a 2nd channel for Hyundai is on the way, but the recession and lack of supporting product preclude that from happening now.
"Hyundai sees this car as a way to test the waters for what is the maximum brand extension," Hall said. If people don't like the car as a Hyundai, he said, "then they need an alternative brand. But you don't need to set up a new dealer network to try the car."
Right way, wrong way
Toyota unveiled the Lexus LS 400 in 1989, and VW rolled out the Phaeton in 2003. Here's why Toyota succeeded and VW failed.
Lexus LS 400
• Promised luxury/quality equal to segment leaders, at lower cost
• Built a brand around the car
• Started with big customer base
• Superb dealership experience
VW Phaeton
• Too big a price gap from Passat to Phaeton
• Used VW badge and "People's Car" brand message
• Overambitious sales goal
09-13-10, 05:00 PM
#49
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: southern cali, san gabriel valley
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are u sure the genesis sedan is out selling the lexus GS? infiniti M I understand but the GS ?
all this comparison with the phaeton is not really what is should be compared with....the equus if you think about it, is more parallel with it's younger sibling genesis sedan.
if a "hyundai" can sell a car in the 35k range and be good at it, that means people will spend 50k given a good product was offered.
SAN FRANCISCO -- Hyundai's hulking Equus sedan, which thrusts the brand into $60,000 prestige-class territory this fall, is being measured against 2 previous leaps of faith in the luxury-car wars -- one a big winner and the other a loser.
So how does the lavishly equipped Equus stack up against those other gambles by volume brands -- Toyota's Lexus LS 400 in 1989 and Volkswagen's Phaeton experiment in 2003?
Favorably, by most accounts. Hyundai has modest volume goals for its big luxury sedan and a plan for getting around the brand's mass-market dealerships.
Also, there's less of a price gap between the Equus and Hyundai's Genesis (which is selling well) than there was between the Phaeton and the VW Passat or between the LS 400 and Toyota's top-of-the-line Cressida sedan back in 1989.
Hyundai's sedan is designed to go head to head against the Lexus, Mercedes and BMW flagship autobahn barges. Its 4.6-liter engine has the appropriate V-8 snarl, the ride is sumptuous, the steering in "sport" mode is precise, the interior controls have the proper soft-touch tactile response, and occupants are swaddled in a herd's worth of hides.
What it boils down to is whether a mass-market Korean brand and its dealers -- just a decade removed from selling low-quality econoboxes and on the brink of abandoning the U.S. market -- really merit consideration as a $60,000 purchase.
"The brand works against them, of course," said Jack Fitzgerald, a multiline dealer in Rockville, Md., who saw the Phaeton flop at his VW store and now will sell the Equus at his Hyundai outlet. "It hasn't become fashionable to drive a Hyundai yet, but it's getting there."
Still, some Hyundai insiders admit to nervousness, fearing it may be too much, too soon. Hyundai actively pursued the notion of opening a separate luxury channel for the car. Some within the U.S. sales arm fought Korea tooth-and-nail to keep the Equus out. Then again, there was a camp within Toyota that didn't want Lexus, either.
Another Phaeton?
The Equus reprises the original Lexus promise of luxury and quality equal to the luxury leaders but at a much lower price. While the 2011 Lexus LS 460 starts at $66,255, with shipping, the Equus is planned to come in comfortably under $60,000. That's Mercedes E550 turf, the same promise Lexus made when it entered the market.
"Lexus, Infiniti and Acura have already shown consumers' willingness to change brands, because they all defected from the Europeans," said Mike O'Brien, Hyundai vice president of product and corporate planning.
O'Brien, a former Toyota executive who began his career at Hyundai, likens the Equus debut to the LS 400 launch.
But others equate the Equus with the failed Phaeton, which was yanked from the U.S. market in 2005 after being on sale for barely 2 years. They say the Teutonic flagship was the height of arrogance from a brand that had no business playing in the rare air of luxury, no matter how good the final product.
Hyundai's U.S. market share this year is 4.7 percent and rising. The brand has 4.2 million vehicles in operation in the United States. By comparison, Toyota's market share when it launched Lexus was 6.4 percent with 8.9 million vehicles in operation. Volkswagen declined to give historical units-in-operation figures but had just 1.5 percent of new-vehicle share in 2004.
Also, the difference in stickers between the Equus and the next-priciest vehicle in the Hyundai lineup isn't as large as when VW launched the Phaeton.
The Genesis sedan starts at $33,800 but climbs to $43,800 with a V-8 engine and options. The Genesis also is a good platform for the Equus. It's keeping pace with the BMW 5 series and easily outsells the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.
Starting at around $60,000, the Equus undercuts today's Lexus LS 460 by at least $6,000. That's before Lexus starts charging for options that are standard on the Equus.
By contrast, the Phaeton's price started at about $70,000 for the V-8 model and grew to more than $100,000 for the 12-cylinder with all-wheel drive. That was a big jump from the $30,000 Passats at the top of the existing VW lineup and more expensive than much of its competition.
And while VW expected 7,500 Phaeton sales a year (it peaked at 1,939 in 2004), Hyundai's U.S. goal is a more modest 2,000 to 3,000.
Dealer Fitzgerald said the Phaeton never had a chance.
"VW made no serious effort to sell the Phaeton," he said. "VW had a lot of internal turmoil going on at the time, a dispute about whether Phaeton should be brought at all. Then they didn't do anything with it once it got here."
Hyundai's brand image is also closer to Toyota circa 1989 than VW's in 2004. Toyota was a mass-market brand on the rise, with luxury-class aspirations. But when it launched the Phaeton, VW didn't try to change its brand message from what the name Volkswagen actually means: "The People's Car."
Fitzgerald sees a distinct difference between the Equus and Phaeton launches.
"I don't think it's a bridge too far for Hyundai," he said. "Hyundai's track record is different from that. They have a plan and they stick with it."
The dealer equation
But while Lexus featured a Taj Majal dealership experience, Equus buyers can do without the dealership altogether. Whether it's for a test drive or oil change, a valet takes care of delivery and retrieval of the Equus from the owner's home or office, with an iPad link serving as the means of communication with the dealership. If it's a service call, the valet leaves a loaner Genesis for the Equus owner.
Among its 790 Hyundai dealers, 250 were allowed to sell the Equus. Each will have a "champion," a staffer devoted to the care and feeding of the handful of Equus owners in his market area. Dealers will have a separate area of the showroom dedicated to the Equus, just in case a customer wanders in.
Still, few Hyundai showrooms can match the amenities or treatment of a Lexus or Mercedes-Benz store. But O'Brien counters: "Would you rather have value for money or a coddling experience?"
Hyundai has performed well in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study and is in the middle of the pack in Power's 3-year durability-index survey. But the brand finished well below average in the 2009 J.D. Power Sales Satisfaction Index, scoring far below even the lowest-scoring luxury brand.
Still, Jeff Schuster, executive director of automotive intelligence at J.D. Power, thinks the Equus will "make some noise" in the luxury segment.
"The whole idea of 'We'll bring it to your house' is a bit more of a commitment," Schuster said.
But is it luxury?
Does the absence of a roundel or a 3-pointed star on the hood disqualify the Equus from being a proper luxury car?
Milton Pedraza, CEO of The Luxury Institute in New York, recommended Hyundai create a new brand for the car when the automaker hired him as a consultant.
"Consumer minds put things in buckets," Pedraza said. "It's a perception issue, not the reality, but perception is reality.
"Hyundai can elevate itself to a premium brand, because quality and nice design are very important to consumers. But the heritage and cachet of a luxury brand takes years and years. Even Lexus is still trying."
The full Hyundai name appears nowhere on the Equus. A winged-icon logo -- unique for the Equus -- is placed on the hood and steering wheel, and only an "Equus" badge appears on the right side of the trunk lid. The only giveaway is a demure Hyundai "H" in the center of the trunk lid.
Jim Hall of the consultancy 2953 Analytics in suburban Detroit thinks a 2nd channel for Hyundai is on the way, but the recession and lack of supporting product preclude that from happening now.
"Hyundai sees this car as a way to test the waters for what is the maximum brand extension," Hall said. If people don't like the car as a Hyundai, he said, "then they need an alternative brand. But you don't need to set up a new dealer network to try the car."
Right way, wrong way
Toyota unveiled the Lexus LS 400 in 1989, and VW rolled out the Phaeton in 2003. Here's why Toyota succeeded and VW failed.
Lexus LS 400
• Promised luxury/quality equal to segment leaders, at lower cost
• Built a brand around the car
• Started with big customer base
• Superb dealership experience
VW Phaeton
• Too big a price gap from Passat to Phaeton
• Used VW badge and "People's Car" brand message
• Overambitious sales goal
all this comparison with the phaeton is not really what is should be compared with....the equus if you think about it, is more parallel with it's younger sibling genesis sedan.
if a "hyundai" can sell a car in the 35k range and be good at it, that means people will spend 50k given a good product was offered.
SAN FRANCISCO -- Hyundai's hulking Equus sedan, which thrusts the brand into $60,000 prestige-class territory this fall, is being measured against 2 previous leaps of faith in the luxury-car wars -- one a big winner and the other a loser.
So how does the lavishly equipped Equus stack up against those other gambles by volume brands -- Toyota's Lexus LS 400 in 1989 and Volkswagen's Phaeton experiment in 2003?
Favorably, by most accounts. Hyundai has modest volume goals for its big luxury sedan and a plan for getting around the brand's mass-market dealerships.
Also, there's less of a price gap between the Equus and Hyundai's Genesis (which is selling well) than there was between the Phaeton and the VW Passat or between the LS 400 and Toyota's top-of-the-line Cressida sedan back in 1989.
Hyundai's sedan is designed to go head to head against the Lexus, Mercedes and BMW flagship autobahn barges. Its 4.6-liter engine has the appropriate V-8 snarl, the ride is sumptuous, the steering in "sport" mode is precise, the interior controls have the proper soft-touch tactile response, and occupants are swaddled in a herd's worth of hides.
What it boils down to is whether a mass-market Korean brand and its dealers -- just a decade removed from selling low-quality econoboxes and on the brink of abandoning the U.S. market -- really merit consideration as a $60,000 purchase.
"The brand works against them, of course," said Jack Fitzgerald, a multiline dealer in Rockville, Md., who saw the Phaeton flop at his VW store and now will sell the Equus at his Hyundai outlet. "It hasn't become fashionable to drive a Hyundai yet, but it's getting there."
Still, some Hyundai insiders admit to nervousness, fearing it may be too much, too soon. Hyundai actively pursued the notion of opening a separate luxury channel for the car. Some within the U.S. sales arm fought Korea tooth-and-nail to keep the Equus out. Then again, there was a camp within Toyota that didn't want Lexus, either.
Another Phaeton?
The Equus reprises the original Lexus promise of luxury and quality equal to the luxury leaders but at a much lower price. While the 2011 Lexus LS 460 starts at $66,255, with shipping, the Equus is planned to come in comfortably under $60,000. That's Mercedes E550 turf, the same promise Lexus made when it entered the market.
"Lexus, Infiniti and Acura have already shown consumers' willingness to change brands, because they all defected from the Europeans," said Mike O'Brien, Hyundai vice president of product and corporate planning.
O'Brien, a former Toyota executive who began his career at Hyundai, likens the Equus debut to the LS 400 launch.
But others equate the Equus with the failed Phaeton, which was yanked from the U.S. market in 2005 after being on sale for barely 2 years. They say the Teutonic flagship was the height of arrogance from a brand that had no business playing in the rare air of luxury, no matter how good the final product.
Hyundai's U.S. market share this year is 4.7 percent and rising. The brand has 4.2 million vehicles in operation in the United States. By comparison, Toyota's market share when it launched Lexus was 6.4 percent with 8.9 million vehicles in operation. Volkswagen declined to give historical units-in-operation figures but had just 1.5 percent of new-vehicle share in 2004.
Also, the difference in stickers between the Equus and the next-priciest vehicle in the Hyundai lineup isn't as large as when VW launched the Phaeton.
The Genesis sedan starts at $33,800 but climbs to $43,800 with a V-8 engine and options. The Genesis also is a good platform for the Equus. It's keeping pace with the BMW 5 series and easily outsells the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.
Starting at around $60,000, the Equus undercuts today's Lexus LS 460 by at least $6,000. That's before Lexus starts charging for options that are standard on the Equus.
By contrast, the Phaeton's price started at about $70,000 for the V-8 model and grew to more than $100,000 for the 12-cylinder with all-wheel drive. That was a big jump from the $30,000 Passats at the top of the existing VW lineup and more expensive than much of its competition.
And while VW expected 7,500 Phaeton sales a year (it peaked at 1,939 in 2004), Hyundai's U.S. goal is a more modest 2,000 to 3,000.
Dealer Fitzgerald said the Phaeton never had a chance.
"VW made no serious effort to sell the Phaeton," he said. "VW had a lot of internal turmoil going on at the time, a dispute about whether Phaeton should be brought at all. Then they didn't do anything with it once it got here."
Hyundai's brand image is also closer to Toyota circa 1989 than VW's in 2004. Toyota was a mass-market brand on the rise, with luxury-class aspirations. But when it launched the Phaeton, VW didn't try to change its brand message from what the name Volkswagen actually means: "The People's Car."
Fitzgerald sees a distinct difference between the Equus and Phaeton launches.
"I don't think it's a bridge too far for Hyundai," he said. "Hyundai's track record is different from that. They have a plan and they stick with it."
The dealer equation
But while Lexus featured a Taj Majal dealership experience, Equus buyers can do without the dealership altogether. Whether it's for a test drive or oil change, a valet takes care of delivery and retrieval of the Equus from the owner's home or office, with an iPad link serving as the means of communication with the dealership. If it's a service call, the valet leaves a loaner Genesis for the Equus owner.
Among its 790 Hyundai dealers, 250 were allowed to sell the Equus. Each will have a "champion," a staffer devoted to the care and feeding of the handful of Equus owners in his market area. Dealers will have a separate area of the showroom dedicated to the Equus, just in case a customer wanders in.
Still, few Hyundai showrooms can match the amenities or treatment of a Lexus or Mercedes-Benz store. But O'Brien counters: "Would you rather have value for money or a coddling experience?"
Hyundai has performed well in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study and is in the middle of the pack in Power's 3-year durability-index survey. But the brand finished well below average in the 2009 J.D. Power Sales Satisfaction Index, scoring far below even the lowest-scoring luxury brand.
Still, Jeff Schuster, executive director of automotive intelligence at J.D. Power, thinks the Equus will "make some noise" in the luxury segment.
"The whole idea of 'We'll bring it to your house' is a bit more of a commitment," Schuster said.
But is it luxury?
Does the absence of a roundel or a 3-pointed star on the hood disqualify the Equus from being a proper luxury car?
Milton Pedraza, CEO of The Luxury Institute in New York, recommended Hyundai create a new brand for the car when the automaker hired him as a consultant.
"Consumer minds put things in buckets," Pedraza said. "It's a perception issue, not the reality, but perception is reality.
"Hyundai can elevate itself to a premium brand, because quality and nice design are very important to consumers. But the heritage and cachet of a luxury brand takes years and years. Even Lexus is still trying."
The full Hyundai name appears nowhere on the Equus. A winged-icon logo -- unique for the Equus -- is placed on the hood and steering wheel, and only an "Equus" badge appears on the right side of the trunk lid. The only giveaway is a demure Hyundai "H" in the center of the trunk lid.
Jim Hall of the consultancy 2953 Analytics in suburban Detroit thinks a 2nd channel for Hyundai is on the way, but the recession and lack of supporting product preclude that from happening now.
"Hyundai sees this car as a way to test the waters for what is the maximum brand extension," Hall said. If people don't like the car as a Hyundai, he said, "then they need an alternative brand. But you don't need to set up a new dealer network to try the car."
Right way, wrong way
Toyota unveiled the Lexus LS 400 in 1989, and VW rolled out the Phaeton in 2003. Here's why Toyota succeeded and VW failed.
Lexus LS 400
• Promised luxury/quality equal to segment leaders, at lower cost
• Built a brand around the car
• Started with big customer base
• Superb dealership experience
VW Phaeton
• Too big a price gap from Passat to Phaeton
• Used VW badge and "People's Car" brand message
• Overambitious sales goal
09-13-10, 05:06 PM
#50
GS/M vs Genesis
So far this year:
- GS: 4,697
- M 9,130
- Genesis: 18,089 (this does include the coupe, mind you)
Last edited by GS69; 09-13-10 at 05:09 PM.
09-13-10, 05:39 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
The only separate, upmarket luxury-arm in the American market that actually "failed" was Mazda's Amati. Unlike Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus, technically, it never really existed in the first place...it was only plans on paper. And the reason it never happened is that Ford simply wouldn't put the money into it to make it happen. Mazda had a car ready for the new Amati division (the Millenia) with an innovative Miller-Cycle engine, but the car simply languished on Mazda dealer lots and never got much attention. One cannot blame Amati's "failure" on so-called "market conditions", or the failure of the public to buy Amati products, if Ford executives never gave it a chance in the first place.
Same with a luxury, upmarket Hyundai division. We can sit here and talk (or debate) all day along about the notion that "it won't work" but one SURE way to make it NOT work is to not start (or fund) it in the first place. I've said it before, and still say, that you cannot sell what you simply refuse to produce.
Using that idea, though, Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti would never have been created, and guess what?...........our own forum (Club Lexus) wouldn't exist either. The fact is, in buisness, sometimes you have to spend money to succeed. And, believe me, Hyundai has those billions you are concerned about........they didn't get to be one of the largest automakers in the world today by playing Uncle Scrooge. As for the "minimal increase in sales" factor...........we heard the same concern a couple of years ago when the Genesis was unveiled.....and look at the succcess that car has been. Who's to say that the Equus won't also succeed? The oft-repeated arguement is that the similiarly-marketed VW Phaeton didn't succeed. True, but the Phaeton never got much publicity, it was priced in the 80-90K range, and VW never really tried to market it well...or emphasize what it bargain it was compared to its BMW/M-B V-12 competition. And, of course, there were the well-known VW stigmas of unreliability and poor dealership service. Hyundai doesn't necessarily have to repeat those mistakes....and the Equus is going to be priced MUCH lower than that.
Same with a luxury, upmarket Hyundai division. We can sit here and talk (or debate) all day along about the notion that "it won't work" but one SURE way to make it NOT work is to not start (or fund) it in the first place. I've said it before, and still say, that you cannot sell what you simply refuse to produce.
Setting up a luxury arm would mean billions spent with maybe minimal increase in sales.
09-13-10, 05:46 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
The combo necessary for a successful premium brand, both top notch premium lux products and high quality dealer showrooms/sales service.
VW and Mazda failed on both counts per above criteria when attempting to enter premium car business. Others have made strides entering with second tier premium models, I expect Hyundai to do the same.
VW and Mazda failed on both counts per above criteria when attempting to enter premium car business. Others have made strides entering with second tier premium models, I expect Hyundai to do the same.
09-13-10, 05:58 PM
#53
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yeah but according to this thread; the genesis sedan is already outselling the lexus GS by over double the sales figures.
The comb
o necessary for a successful premium brand, both top notch premium lux products and high quality dealer showrooms/sales service.
VW and Mazda failed on both counts per above criteria when attempting to enter premium car business. Others have made strides entering with second tier premium models, I expect Hyundai to do the same.
o necessary for a successful premium brand, both top notch premium lux products and high quality dealer showrooms/sales service.
VW and Mazda failed on both counts per above criteria when attempting to enter premium car business. Others have made strides entering with second tier premium models, I expect Hyundai to do the same.
09-13-10, 05:59 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
The combo necessary for a successful premium brand, both top notch premium lux products and high quality dealer showrooms/sales service.
VW and Mazda failed on both counts per above criteria when attempting to enter premium car business. Others have made strides entering with second tier premium models, I expect Hyundai to do the same.
VW and Mazda failed on both counts per above criteria when attempting to enter premium car business. Others have made strides entering with second tier premium models, I expect Hyundai to do the same.
09-13-10, 06:04 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
I don't necesarily agree with that assessment. When Lexus was ceated in 1989-90, Toyota, during the 1980's, like Honda, although the cars were reliable, had a reputation for poor dealer service, arrogant salespeople, and a customer-doesn't-matter attitude (this was brought about at least in part by the high demand and artificially-low supply of Toyotas and Hondas by the government import-restrictions of the 1980's). Yet Lexus succeeded wildly, and Infiniti to a lesser extent. And Hyundai, today, is starting from an even better position than Toyota did in the late 1980's
Lexus in this decade has very good dealer service, above average salespeople and a customer satisfaction emphasis that warrants tier 1 status.
No kidding they fixed a few things in the last 20 years and those that drive/own/understand the top tier lux brands know it. Mercedes and BMW are also well aware of what a Lexus dealership experience is like and have also adjusted accordingly.
As I said earlier, "both top notch premium lux products and high quality dealer showrooms/sales service" are needed to achieve tier 1 success. Lexus is a prime example.
Back to Hyundai, yes Hyundai is selling decent reliable cars in 2010, but the whole industry (especially the leading automakers) is in a better position today with portfolios of competitive vehicles (not stuck in the 80's, lol like the GO-GO's).
Last edited by IS-SV; 09-13-10 at 06:36 PM.
09-13-10, 06:06 PM
#56
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Both the GS and M start at roughly 46K MSRP, much higher than the MSRP for either the V6 or V8 versions of the Genesis.
09-13-10, 06:17 PM
#57
I Agree
I would not put the Genesis on the same level as the GS or M but the article did state the below & it is not the only time I have read such a comparison (Hyundai PR @ work?):
& then MikeMareen wanted verification of the #s ... so that is where that post came from.
The Genesis sedan starts at $33,800 but climbs to $43,800 with a V-8 engine and options. The Genesis also is a good platform for the Equus. It's keeping pace with the BMW 5 series and easily outsells the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.
09-13-10, 06:35 PM
#58
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Also Hyundai does not separate sedan/coupe sales so we don't know how many they are selling exactly.
You can LEASE a Genesis for $399 a month. The next closest is the M37 at $599 a month, $200 more.
Edit. Just saw this post.
Last edited by LexFather; 09-13-10 at 06:39 PM.
09-13-10, 06:50 PM
#59
Lexus Champion
That's all ancient history for those those focusing on looking back.
Lexus in this decade has very good dealer service, above average salespeople and a customer satisfaction emphasis that warrants tier 1 status.
No kidding they fixed a few things in the last 20 years and those that drive/own/understand the top tier lux brands know it. Mercedes and BMW are also well aware of what a Lexus dealership experience is like and have also adjusted accordingly.
As I said earlier, "both top notch premium lux products and high quality dealer showrooms/sales service" are needed to achieve tier 1 success. Lexus is a prime example.
Back to Hyundai, yes Hyundai is selling decent reliable cars in 2010, but the whole industry (especially the leading automakers) is in a better position today with portfolios of competitive vehicles (not stuck in the 80's, lol like the GO-GO's).
Lexus in this decade has very good dealer service, above average salespeople and a customer satisfaction emphasis that warrants tier 1 status.
No kidding they fixed a few things in the last 20 years and those that drive/own/understand the top tier lux brands know it. Mercedes and BMW are also well aware of what a Lexus dealership experience is like and have also adjusted accordingly.
As I said earlier, "both top notch premium lux products and high quality dealer showrooms/sales service" are needed to achieve tier 1 success. Lexus is a prime example.
Back to Hyundai, yes Hyundai is selling decent reliable cars in 2010, but the whole industry (especially the leading automakers) is in a better position today with portfolios of competitive vehicles (not stuck in the 80's, lol like the GO-GO's).
09-13-10, 06:54 PM
#60
Lexus Champion
The Lacrosse is selling twice as many cars as the Genesis sedan/coupe combined. Does that make the Lacrosse the top luxury vehicle?
Nope, because they are not true luxury vehicles. The E class and 5 series sell more vehicles combined at a much higher price point. Higher price point because they are much better cars and true luxury entries. The Genesis and Lacrosse are good "bang for the buck" vehicles that have made great improvements but are nowhere near Tier 1 status.