-J-P-L-

I should have clarified. I was specifically naming Toyota badged cars, not Lexus. Really, the only Lexus hybrid to sell reasonably is the RX450h and even then not what might be considered great.

Turbinator

At $17K and 70MPG, they'd have me as a customer for a commuter car.

Turby

LexFather

The RX 450h sells around 1500 units a month. That is around mid-pack if it was a stand alone model, which is pretty incredible. Most are also loaded in the 50-60k range. Hell it outsells the HS.

The hybrid market is a finicky one, just making something a "hybrid' does not equate to success. Honda still hasn't figured out something rather simple. People seemingly don't want cheap hybrids. They also couldn't figure out people didn't want the Accord hybrid.

You see Honda hasn't invested in hybrids and offers the half-assed IMA system. Since Toyota completely trumps them in hybrids they are trying to market them as "hybrids for everyone" and aim at the cheaper market.

Its not that they want them for everyone its just the system is much cheaper to produce than the hybrid synergy drive system so the cars should be cheaper.

I haven't seen any Honda fans ask for more IMA cars. They have asked for real hybrids and they have asked for sportier cars and stop the ugly and add some damn tech like bluetooth etc. They never asked for a Fit hybrid.

mmarshall

Maybe slightly off-topic, Mike, but I still think that, in general, except for the VW TDIs, the small-diesel market in the U.S. is being neglected because of the emphasis on hybrids. Diesels often get the same (or better) mileage as some hybrids.....with a lot less complexity and cost in the design.

djyoshi626

iTrader: (5)

I would consider it since I am looking for a DD.

If the hybrid only gets 5 or so miles above a regular one, than no. If the car gets in an accident, it would probably be more of a headache since it's a hybrid. Also, does hybrid come in stick. Anyhow, it'll give the Prius a run for it's money if it does get 40+ MPG.

IS-SV

I have no use for this car.

I8ABMR

I have seen some incredible fuel economy ratings from diesels.

bagwell

the higher price of diesel fuel negates the higher MPG.

vwynn

iTrader: (4)

if it has the F1 KERS system in the hybrid that bumps up the HP to 200 for a few good seconds then maybe.. :]

I8ABMR

aren't they saying the same thing about hybrids. You would have to own them for 10 years before you get the money back ( something like that). In the end there are no free rides. LOL

mmarshall

Low-sulfur Diesel fuel (the only kind allowed by the EPA now for regular street diesels) varies quite a bit in price from station to station. At some stations, it runs more than 91-93 octane gas, at others, less.

Hybrids DO, though, in some places, have at least one advantage over small diesels. Hybrid-friendly HOV rush-hour regulations on busy freeways, that allow hybrid drivers to skip some of the gridlock, generally do not extend to diesels. They should, IMO, but generally do not.

mmarshall

The payback-time for the higher cost of the hybrid, of course, varies with the individual vehicle and the average pump-price of the fuel, but, in general, you are right......you pay more up front for a hybrid or a diesel, and then gradually get the money back, over time, through better mileage and, (where applicable), tax credits.


An additional factor, though, with a hybrid, as I indicated above in my reply to bagwell, is something that can't necessarily be measured in dollars and cents....the saving of a lot of frustration and wear/tear on the driver's nerves by being able to freely use HOV lanes and not creeping along in gridlock.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

Depends where you are really. a 76/Conoco station near me has diesel that is usually a 3-4 cents more expensive than 87.