Where do all these recalls leave Lexus?
07-07-10, 10:45 AM
#32
I am not using this as an excuse but I think this is (unfortunately) part of a natural cycle that we see in the automotive industry- it just took Toyota a long time to succumb to it.
Mercedes decided that their cars were "needlessly overengineered" in the early 90s, ALL of the domestics thought they had a tight leash on buyers and that building and selling overpriced garbage for 20 years would be a fine idea, Nissan had their growing pains 4-5 years ago, and the list goes on. It seems to be the "way of life" for companies to go through "growth" phases where they ramp up products and production, then "down" phases where they focus on back-room processes like manufacturing, quality control, and cost control.
IMO, Katsuaki Watanabe deserves a lot of the blame. There have been plenty of articles pointing to the in-house strife between Toyoda family members, shareholders, and non-family directors. As I know, the Toyoda family has always focused first and foremost on quality. Period. When Katsuaki Watanabe took over as president and CEO he cared more about what shareholders and stakeholders wanted which was not surprisngly- money. We got countless new models and variations, tons of new technology, faster redesigns, and record-shattering profits for several years. It seemed like life in Toyota City was too good to be true, and indeed that really was the case.
As the suppliers, engineers and manufacturers scrambled to meet ever increasing cost cutting and time constraints, quality suffered. It suffered in everything from build quality to materials and reliability. As is now plain to see, it took a few years for these loopholes to really manifest themselves. Toyota, the company that built a 70 year legacy on quality had been set on a new path by a new president and CEO who cared more about profits, money, and pleasing shareholders than he did about the quality of the cars he was producing. The Toyoda family has sat front row as their family name has been tarnished over the last year and unfortunately Akio, simply based on timing, has been the scape-goat for all of it. The public doesn't understand the timeline of these events and how the problems we see today have been seeping through for several years.
So...back to the topic at hand: where does this leave the company now? Knowing the corporate culture, standards, and expectations at Toyota, I think this period will severely impact the company for decades to come. The Japanese do not take things like this lightly and I doubt the Toyoda family will ever turn the reigns over to another non-family member in the forseeable future. Akio has different priorities and more skin in the game - his legendary name is on the trunk and hood of the millions of cars that have been recalled. I don't think he will let that happen again. I believe that we will see levels of quality and craftsmanship that even surpass the LS430, SC430, and GS300/430...cars that were built at the company's peak. I think that Toyota will come away from this with a viscious vengeance for quality, and the dedication to reclaim it's former glory.
Mercedes decided that their cars were "needlessly overengineered" in the early 90s, ALL of the domestics thought they had a tight leash on buyers and that building and selling overpriced garbage for 20 years would be a fine idea, Nissan had their growing pains 4-5 years ago, and the list goes on. It seems to be the "way of life" for companies to go through "growth" phases where they ramp up products and production, then "down" phases where they focus on back-room processes like manufacturing, quality control, and cost control.
IMO, Katsuaki Watanabe deserves a lot of the blame. There have been plenty of articles pointing to the in-house strife between Toyoda family members, shareholders, and non-family directors. As I know, the Toyoda family has always focused first and foremost on quality. Period. When Katsuaki Watanabe took over as president and CEO he cared more about what shareholders and stakeholders wanted which was not surprisngly- money. We got countless new models and variations, tons of new technology, faster redesigns, and record-shattering profits for several years. It seemed like life in Toyota City was too good to be true, and indeed that really was the case.
As the suppliers, engineers and manufacturers scrambled to meet ever increasing cost cutting and time constraints, quality suffered. It suffered in everything from build quality to materials and reliability. As is now plain to see, it took a few years for these loopholes to really manifest themselves. Toyota, the company that built a 70 year legacy on quality had been set on a new path by a new president and CEO who cared more about profits, money, and pleasing shareholders than he did about the quality of the cars he was producing. The Toyoda family has sat front row as their family name has been tarnished over the last year and unfortunately Akio, simply based on timing, has been the scape-goat for all of it. The public doesn't understand the timeline of these events and how the problems we see today have been seeping through for several years.
So...back to the topic at hand: where does this leave the company now? Knowing the corporate culture, standards, and expectations at Toyota, I think this period will severely impact the company for decades to come. The Japanese do not take things like this lightly and I doubt the Toyoda family will ever turn the reigns over to another non-family member in the forseeable future. Akio has different priorities and more skin in the game - his legendary name is on the trunk and hood of the millions of cars that have been recalled. I don't think he will let that happen again. I believe that we will see levels of quality and craftsmanship that even surpass the LS430, SC430, and GS300/430...cars that were built at the company's peak. I think that Toyota will come away from this with a viscious vengeance for quality, and the dedication to reclaim it's former glory.
07-07-10, 10:58 AM
#33
I think you'd be surprised how much dealers make on recalls. It may not be full pop retail but believe me, they make good money on it. It's very welcome work to a slow dealership.
In the long run, Lexus will need to raise the bar once again. They've done it for so long, they'll do it again, they certainly have the resources. The competition is getting very stiff. Everybody has been stepping up their game. When you're already the best, it becomes harder.
In the long run, Lexus will need to raise the bar once again. They've done it for so long, they'll do it again, they certainly have the resources. The competition is getting very stiff. Everybody has been stepping up their game. When you're already the best, it becomes harder.
and now with the valve springs recall, the time involved in replacing them? yeah it's not "100%" money, but considering that a lot of master tech would be occupied for a long time, it might not be a bad idea
EXCELLENT post. 
so is it perception, or reality?
your earlier post tends to say reality, but i agree that perception is a part of it too.
on your last post there though, it varies by brand. there is no question that ford's latest interiors and overall feature set is worlds better than a few years ago. the interior of the new taurus is really very nice for example.
so is it perception, or reality?
your earlier post tends to say reality, but i agree that perception is a part of it too.on your last post there though, it varies by brand. there is no question that ford's latest interiors and overall feature set is worlds better than a few years ago. the interior of the new taurus is really very nice for example.
and yes, you are right, definitely varies by brand. when i wrote my post it was more about lexus brand
07-07-10, 11:03 AM
#34
I am not using this as an excuse but I think this is (unfortunately) part of a natural cycle that we see in the automotive industry- it just took Toyota a long time to succumb to it.
Mercedes decided that their cars were "needlessly overengineered" in the early 90s, ALL of the domestics thought they had a tight leash on buyers and that building and selling overpriced garbage for 20 years would be a fine idea, Nissan had their growing pains 4-5 years ago, and the list goes on. It seems to be the "way of life" for companies to go through "growth" phases where they ramp up products and production, then "down" phases where they focus on back-room processes like manufacturing, quality control, and cost control.
IMO, Katsuaki Watanabe deserves a lot of the blame. There have been plenty of articles pointing to the in-house strife between Toyoda family members, shareholders, and non-family directors. As I know, the Toyoda family has always focused first and foremost on quality. Period. When Katsuaki Watanabe took over as president and CEO he cared more about what shareholders and stakeholders wanted which was not surprisngly- money. We got countless new models and variations, tons of new technology, faster redesigns, and record-shattering profits for several years. It seemed like life in Toyota City was too good to be true, and indeed that really was the case.
As the suppliers, engineers and manufacturers scrambled to meet ever increasing cost cutting and time constraints, quality suffered. It suffered in everything from build quality to materials and reliability. As is now plain to see, it took a few years for these loopholes to really manifest themselves. Toyota, the company that built a 70 year legacy on quality had been set on a new path by a new president and CEO who cared more about profits, money, and pleasing shareholders than he did about the quality of the cars he was producing. The Toyoda family has sat front row as their family name has been tarnished over the last year and unfortunately Akio, simply based on timing, has been the scape-goat for all of it. The public doesn't understand the timeline of these events and how the problems we see today have been seeping through for several years.
So...back to the topic at hand: where does this leave the company now? Knowing the corporate culture, standards, and expectations at Toyota, I think this period will severely impact the company for decades to come. The Japanese do not take things like this lightly and I doubt the Toyoda family will ever turn the reigns over to another non-family member in the forseeable future. Akio has different priorities and more skin in the game - his legendary name is on the trunk and hood of the millions of cars that have been recalled. I don't think he will let that happen again. I believe that we will see levels of quality and craftsmanship that even surpass the LS430, SC430, and GS300/430...cars that were built at the company's peak. I think that Toyota will come away from this with a viscious vengeance for quality, and the dedication to reclaim it's former glory.
Mercedes decided that their cars were "needlessly overengineered" in the early 90s, ALL of the domestics thought they had a tight leash on buyers and that building and selling overpriced garbage for 20 years would be a fine idea, Nissan had their growing pains 4-5 years ago, and the list goes on. It seems to be the "way of life" for companies to go through "growth" phases where they ramp up products and production, then "down" phases where they focus on back-room processes like manufacturing, quality control, and cost control.
IMO, Katsuaki Watanabe deserves a lot of the blame. There have been plenty of articles pointing to the in-house strife between Toyoda family members, shareholders, and non-family directors. As I know, the Toyoda family has always focused first and foremost on quality. Period. When Katsuaki Watanabe took over as president and CEO he cared more about what shareholders and stakeholders wanted which was not surprisngly- money. We got countless new models and variations, tons of new technology, faster redesigns, and record-shattering profits for several years. It seemed like life in Toyota City was too good to be true, and indeed that really was the case.
As the suppliers, engineers and manufacturers scrambled to meet ever increasing cost cutting and time constraints, quality suffered. It suffered in everything from build quality to materials and reliability. As is now plain to see, it took a few years for these loopholes to really manifest themselves. Toyota, the company that built a 70 year legacy on quality had been set on a new path by a new president and CEO who cared more about profits, money, and pleasing shareholders than he did about the quality of the cars he was producing. The Toyoda family has sat front row as their family name has been tarnished over the last year and unfortunately Akio, simply based on timing, has been the scape-goat for all of it. The public doesn't understand the timeline of these events and how the problems we see today have been seeping through for several years.
So...back to the topic at hand: where does this leave the company now? Knowing the corporate culture, standards, and expectations at Toyota, I think this period will severely impact the company for decades to come. The Japanese do not take things like this lightly and I doubt the Toyoda family will ever turn the reigns over to another non-family member in the forseeable future. Akio has different priorities and more skin in the game - his legendary name is on the trunk and hood of the millions of cars that have been recalled. I don't think he will let that happen again. I believe that we will see levels of quality and craftsmanship that even surpass the LS430, SC430, and GS300/430...cars that were built at the company's peak. I think that Toyota will come away from this with a viscious vengeance for quality, and the dedication to reclaim it's former glory.
and i most definitely hope the impact goes on for decades, i hope it's not that deep (yet). but another thing i have in mind is, is this the "end" yet in terms of surfacing the problems? my fear is it's not...
07-07-10, 11:10 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
I am not using this as an excuse but I think this is (unfortunately) part of a natural cycle that we see in the automotive industry- it just took Toyota a long time to succumb to it.
Mercedes decided that their cars were "needlessly overengineered" in the early 90s, ALL of the domestics thought they had a tight leash on buyers and that building and selling overpriced garbage for 20 years would be a fine idea, Nissan had their growing pains 4-5 years ago, and the list goes on. It seems to be the "way of life" for companies to go through "growth" phases where they ramp up products and production, then "down" phases where they focus on back-room processes like manufacturing, quality control, and cost control.
IMO, Katsuaki Watanabe deserves a lot of the blame. There have been plenty of articles pointing to the in-house strife between Toyoda family members, shareholders, and non-family directors. As I know, the Toyoda family has always focused first and foremost on quality. Period. When Katsuaki Watanabe took over as president and CEO he cared more about what shareholders and stakeholders wanted which was not surprisngly- money. We got countless new models and variations, tons of new technology, faster redesigns, and record-shattering profits for several years. It seemed like life in Toyota City was too good to be true, and indeed that really was the case.
As the suppliers, engineers and manufacturers scrambled to meet ever increasing cost cutting and time constraints, quality suffered. It suffered in everything from build quality to materials and reliability. As is now plain to see, it took a few years for these loopholes to really manifest themselves. Toyota, the company that built a 70 year legacy on quality had been set on a new path by a new president and CEO who cared more about profits, money, and pleasing shareholders than he did about the quality of the cars he was producing. The Toyoda family has sat front row as their family name has been tarnished over the last year and unfortunately Akio, simply based on timing, has been the scape-goat for all of it. The public doesn't understand the timeline of these events and how the problems we see today have been seeping through for several years.
So...back to the topic at hand: where does this leave the company now? Knowing the corporate culture, standards, and expectations at Toyota, I think this period will severely impact the company for decades to come. The Japanese do not take things like this lightly and I doubt the Toyoda family will ever turn the reigns over to another non-family member in the forseeable future. Akio has different priorities and more skin in the game - his legendary name is on the trunk and hood of the millions of cars that have been recalled. I don't think he will let that happen again. I believe that we will see levels of quality and craftsmanship that even surpass the LS430, SC430, and GS300/430...cars that were built at the company's peak. I think that Toyota will come away from this with a viscious vengeance for quality, and the dedication to reclaim it's former glory.
Mercedes decided that their cars were "needlessly overengineered" in the early 90s, ALL of the domestics thought they had a tight leash on buyers and that building and selling overpriced garbage for 20 years would be a fine idea, Nissan had their growing pains 4-5 years ago, and the list goes on. It seems to be the "way of life" for companies to go through "growth" phases where they ramp up products and production, then "down" phases where they focus on back-room processes like manufacturing, quality control, and cost control.
IMO, Katsuaki Watanabe deserves a lot of the blame. There have been plenty of articles pointing to the in-house strife between Toyoda family members, shareholders, and non-family directors. As I know, the Toyoda family has always focused first and foremost on quality. Period. When Katsuaki Watanabe took over as president and CEO he cared more about what shareholders and stakeholders wanted which was not surprisngly- money. We got countless new models and variations, tons of new technology, faster redesigns, and record-shattering profits for several years. It seemed like life in Toyota City was too good to be true, and indeed that really was the case.
As the suppliers, engineers and manufacturers scrambled to meet ever increasing cost cutting and time constraints, quality suffered. It suffered in everything from build quality to materials and reliability. As is now plain to see, it took a few years for these loopholes to really manifest themselves. Toyota, the company that built a 70 year legacy on quality had been set on a new path by a new president and CEO who cared more about profits, money, and pleasing shareholders than he did about the quality of the cars he was producing. The Toyoda family has sat front row as their family name has been tarnished over the last year and unfortunately Akio, simply based on timing, has been the scape-goat for all of it. The public doesn't understand the timeline of these events and how the problems we see today have been seeping through for several years.
So...back to the topic at hand: where does this leave the company now? Knowing the corporate culture, standards, and expectations at Toyota, I think this period will severely impact the company for decades to come. The Japanese do not take things like this lightly and I doubt the Toyoda family will ever turn the reigns over to another non-family member in the forseeable future. Akio has different priorities and more skin in the game - his legendary name is on the trunk and hood of the millions of cars that have been recalled. I don't think he will let that happen again. I believe that we will see levels of quality and craftsmanship that even surpass the LS430, SC430, and GS300/430...cars that were built at the company's peak. I think that Toyota will come away from this with a viscious vengeance for quality, and the dedication to reclaim it's former glory.
solid ........I agree 100%. These companies can get to big for their own good
07-07-10, 12:03 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
lexus may end up (shock) offering longer warranties or free maintenance to reassure buyers too.
07-07-10, 12:09 PM
#37
but i am just afraid that potentially there are more problems that will come out on the 2is, 3gs, 4ls, etc... until the next generation is here. with their track record recently, it can be a clip that breaks more easily and it will be a big deal...
07-07-10, 12:11 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
07-07-10, 01:17 PM
#39
Really? I don't really care about the hype surrounding the recalls. I will still drive mine and would consider buying another without a 2nd thought. If there's an issue, and they will fix it for free, I'll take the car in and get it serviced. The recalls do not scare me away from driving or owning a Lexus vehicle.
Turby
Turby
07-07-10, 06:31 PM
#40
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
They don't?
You guys are all forgetting one thing. It is human nature to always say "this generation isn't built as well as the last." Every car forum I have followed over the last twelve years has said the same thing. It's the , "they don't make em like they used to" syndrome that we always like to stab...
The LS460 is far superior in technological gimmicks than the 430, but it's the devil in the details that takes away from the more current generations. Toyota probably look at every single inch on the 1st gen LS400 to make sure it was to EXACT specs because they had to. Now, I'm sure they close one eye to certain things and let them slide.
My '95 Civic LX (LOVED IT), we middle road econo car, but Honda put so much detail and love into it. Soft touch materials all over, from dash to door trims and other surrounds. The current Civic, you can barely find one non-hard plastic trim around. It's like I'm sitting in a plastic box. Sure, the current Civic in terms of technology blows the '95 away, but it was the details that make me think the '95 was better.
Someone here mentioned Lexus having to offer "Free Maintenance" to get/maintain customers. Now with everyone and their uncle offering free maintenance on new and some CPO vehicles, Lexus almost HAS TO follow the Jones to keep up. I think it's a matter of time (probably before year end) that Lexus will be forced to have to offer a similiar plan. I guess it will be more reason to get a CPO vehicle if interested...
As I said, hopefully this slaps Toyota hard enough in the face to get them back to the '70s-'90s philosophy that got them to the high esteem that they earned, rather than the bean-counting days of the past decade.
07-08-10, 12:06 AM
#41
Someone here mentioned Lexus having to offer "Free Maintenance" to get/maintain customers. Now with everyone and their uncle offering free maintenance on new and some CPO vehicles, Lexus almost HAS TO follow the Jones to keep up. I think it's a matter of time (probably before year end) that Lexus will be forced to have to offer a similiar plan. I guess it will be more reason to get a CPO vehicle if interested...
i don't know about other companies like infiniti?
07-08-10, 06:20 AM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
right now i think only bmw offers free maintenance with their new vehicles throughout the warranty period. mb had it before but it's been stopped for years. both mb and audi now offer "competitive" maintenance program where you pay a lump sum in the beginning and all maintenance covered for the duration of warranty.
i don't know about other companies like infiniti?
i don't know about other companies like infiniti?
07-08-10, 07:57 AM
#43
Lexus Test Driver
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In a way, the reason why I decided to go with Audi and leave Lexus is because of the problems that Toyota/Lexus has been going through. To find out that Lexus just had another recall on the IS made me feel more confident with my decision. However, I hope that it's just a phase right now and I do hope that Lexus/Toyota can bounce back. Would I ever go back to Lexus? Of course. I think I would've picked BMW over Audi, but I've seen the issues that my brother went through with the 335i. Initially I wanted to get the sedan, but way too many issues. I'm sure it could've just been the fuel pump issue, but I do drive it from time to time now and the issue doesn't seem to be there anymore. I love their option of free maintenance. So far I have no issues with Audi. Great service and it seems on par with the experience I've had with Lexus. I went with the Audi care package which all maintenance would be covered. Not free, but I'm sure it's worth it if I had not gone with the package, I probably would've paid way more in services.
07-08-10, 08:19 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Best of luck with selecting Audi as a way to avoid Lexus problems in the form of recalls, etc. My tennis team friend was surprised when the head gasket on his babied A4 turbo blew recently at 60K miles and that repair cost was not covered by Audi.