AlexusAnja

I'm wondering how the short term, and long term, effects of all these recent recalls will leave Lexus. Toyota/Lexus had the one big thing going for them and that was reliability. They were never seen as the most luxurious, not the most fun to drive, and really, not even the best designed... but no one could deny it's reliability.

Now that even that aspect of Lexus is not stellar any more, what does Lexus have to stand on? Past performance, hopefully future improvement. Perhaps more future failures.

Although most of the recalls were easy fixes (ECU fix for the GX460), some are safety items that are not so easily brushed aside by memory. Thing like this just never happened to Toyota/Lexus and now this year it's happened four times to almost all their vehicles.

Scary... if Lexus owners leave thinking that the MB or BMW is just as reliable and the drive is better... they're not coming back to Lexus any time soon.

bnizzle87

it does seem like a bad year or so for Lexus. it costs more to bring in new customers than to retain old ones, and i think Toyota Motor Corp. will find a way to not only rise above these pitfalls with the recalls and bad publicity and still provide the reliability and luxurious vehicles it produced well before the recalls began. many drivers have been switching over to a Toyota/Lexus brand because of reliability issues from MB and BMW, but it could happen the opposite way as well with Lexus. Customers want what they want, but brand loyalty seems to be in trouble if there are any more recalls or bad press associated with them in the future.

IS-SV

"Where do all these recalls leave Lexus?"

Most likely Lexus will remain as the #1 lux brand in the US.

For those of us that have actually owned Mercedes and BMW cars and regarding the topic of reliability, the reliability of a Lexus is still far ahead in that department.

None of above means that Toyota/Lexus should take these recalls lightly, customer satisfaction should remain as primary goal.

I8ABMR

I think that the effect is greater than what we may be seeing on the surface. It takes years to build that level of consumer confidence. I am not saying Lexus is going to drop off the face of the earth by any means, but they will need to regain that consumer confidence that it has lost. This will not be done in a matter of a couple of months. It will take years

mmarshall

I owned a 2001 Lexus IS300 for almost 5 years, and I have to admit that it......and my current Outback......are the two most reliable cars I've ever owned. Except for some occasional transmission-shift and drive-by-wire quirks from the ECU, (which were never completely addressed, despite factory ECU-reflashes) the IS300, from Day One, had the feeling that the chassis, unibody, and powertrain were carved from a block of granite. It was a remarkably well-built car. The 2Gen IS, while still a good car, just was not as solid-feeling.

RXSF

It takes a long time to build that type of reputation, and very short time to have it taken away. I fear for Lexus, and I think they know that they have a lot of work to do. Just look at the sale numbers for this month. Lexus is beaten by Mercedes and maybe BMW (im not sure) for the first time in a few months.

I have no doubt they still build reliable cars, but Benz is building ones that are almost as good.

mmarshall

I have to disagree on the luxury part. When the LS400 first debuted, it set new standards for luxury, refinement, quality, and reliability combined. Lexus soon became famous for its ability to produce tomb-quiet powertrains and sound insulation....one of the big reasons why it established an early sales lead over rival Infiniti that it was never to give up.

Cadillac and Lincoln, of course, at the time, could also produce smooth, quiet-running cars with plush interiors, but not with the same kind of quality, reliability, and fit/finish that Lexus provided.

92 SC400

I agree with this. I don't think we will actually know the true effect of all of this for a more years. Reason being is that most current owners know the quality is still there, for the most part, however, all the non-Lexus/Toyota owners have been hearing about all the recalls and if Lexus cannot sell to the non-owners than they will have trouble growing or maintaining their position, at least until any negative perceptions are put to rest. I find it hard to believe that at some point all of this will not catch up to them. Not this year, maybe not next either, but at some point it likely will.

That's just my opinion though so I'm sure there are many that would disagree...

IS-SV

I agree with you, premium car buyers know that when it comes to luxury Lexus stacks up well versus competition.

IS-SV

Certainly valid points even if speculation at this point. What you are bringing up is more the negative impact of the PR, not so much actual customer satisfaction.

I8ABMR

I think Lexus stacks up in terms of luxury but is not the top. Mercedes and BMW have that crown mostly because of the reputation and status they have.

mmarshall

Benz, after some 15 years of its reliability being in the pits, is showing signs of improvement once again, according to Consumer Reports. At one time (say, before 1990 or so), M-B produced what were arguably the most durable cars in the world, though very expensive to own and service. Their quality/reliability, interestingly, started to drop when they first encountered serious competition from Japanese Luxury brands, primarily Lexus and Infiniti, in the early 1990's. Several different theories have been put forward for why that quality drop happened, but the most convincing one, IMO, is that Lexus was able to sell the original LS400 at a price that far undercut that of upper-level M-B products of the time, and M-B was forced to start cutting corners in material quality since they couldn't lower the wages/benefits of the highly-paid German work force.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lexus problems didn't start early this year. it dates way back to 2006 when they new generations came out bearing the name l-finesse. if anything, the recalls are more of a "black and white" proof of their problem and a big public slap on them regarding the issue.

looking back at early 2000s, lexus was arguably at its prime in terms of vehicles and especially quality and reliability. it's been mentioned a lot before, ls430, sc430, gs430, all those are completely bullet proof vehicles.

but since 2006, from my somewhat big exposure to lexus vehicles, here's what i have seen...
- 3gs have a lot of quality issues. rattles, squeaks, fit and finish
- 4ls have dash rattle issues, wind noise, vgrs recall
- gx460, stability control recall
- hs fuel leak recall
- 2is and es350 gas pedal recall

if anything, the lx570 and 3rx are the cars that i haven't read much problem about

so as some can see, problems have been brewing since 2006. as mentioned, this is in no doubt going to affect toyota/lexus reputation for a while. it's harder to bring in new buyers than retaining current ones, and it's definitely not hard to drive away owners.

of course, sales numbers might show otherwise (lexus continues to sell the most number of luxury vehicles past few years i believe), but it doesn't take away fact that there are certain number of people out there saying they are disappointed and likely won't return to lexus because of their quality and reliability issues.

i think it's hard to deny that most owners choose toyota/lexus brands for their reputation in build quality and long term reliability. if they are to lose these "perks" as well, then they lose their biggest leverage.

i work on a lot of recent lexus, i notice a lot of quality issues (compared to previous generations), and seeing these problems first hand (and also problems i have on mine now), my wife actually once asked me "so if this goes on, what's the point of continue getting lexus?" my reply was "right now, i still think it's better bet to own lexus than mb or bmw, but yes, if this continues..."

i am sure i am not the only one thinking this way, and it's a serious problem toyota has to face. first off i really like how they react and deal with their most recent recall problems (gx, ls, valve). they are very quick and responsive imho, not allowing media to have much time to tell "their stories", and just quickly say "we are going to fix the problem period". that's a very good start i think

but at the same time, it's up to them to do whatever it takes to significantly boost up their quality issues on their next generation of vehicles. given public perception, current generation vehicles are "done", even if we don't hear anything else again. but the future vehicles, those are what people will keep an eye on and the real judgment time comes.

maybe it will take lexus another 2-3 years to recover and get back to where they were, but that's doable. however if they manage to screw up more, it will likely take significantly more time, if at all

rominl

iTrader: (4)

early 2000s was the valley point for mb. but over the past 3 years, most of the newly released mb have been pretty solid. that includes the s class, which from what i read have been very good

I8ABMR

I love my GS but the issues I have seen with Lexus over the past 3 years will make me consider an Infiniti again. I am pretty sure they have gotten better in the last 3-4 years