(updated) NHTSA: No evidence of Toyota electronics problems
07-14-10, 01:08 PM
#61
It comes back to driver responsibility.
Since most drivers don't want to take responsibility for their actions (speeding during turns, not giving enough room for braking, etc.), electronic nannies are now being standardized.
And glitches in these nannies (HAL) can cause problems...
Since most drivers don't want to take responsibility for their actions (speeding during turns, not giving enough room for braking, etc.), electronic nannies are now being standardized.
And glitches in these nannies (HAL) can cause problems...
07-14-10, 01:11 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
07-14-10, 02:25 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
I never said " Toyota is the devil and that its all their fault".
( BS). I, like the hundreds of people who responded to the initial thread, agreed that they may have dragged their feet initially. Please stop putting words in my mouth . The "humorous" jokes have nothing to do with the the thread and frankly are kind of childish .2001 space odyssey has nothing to do with Toyota recall situation and you know it
Last edited by I8ABMR; 07-14-10 at 02:31 PM.
07-14-10, 02:41 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Now can we please talk about the recent Toyota news for Gods sake??????? or am I destroying the community by actually discussing the topic and not making childish jokes
????
07-14-10, 05:51 PM
#68
Pole Position
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: WA
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When all the investigations on Toyota was going, some dude in the second gen RX forum was asking if Toyota was out trying to kill us. I asked if he would give me his 'killing' machine, but never got any reply. On the bright side, one of my family member went out got a great deal on a RAV4 Limited with 2 years free maintenance.
, but never got any reply. On the bright side, one of my family member went out got a great deal on a RAV4 Limited with 2 years free maintenance.
07-14-10, 07:38 PM
#69
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
when it suits you you guys say one thing. When they wrote the forum rules it says something else. Your comments mean nothing to me because you guys were playing around......and you know it.
Now can we please talk about the recent Toyota news for Gods sake??????? or am I destroying the community by actually discussing the topic and not making childish jokes????
Now can we please talk about the recent Toyota news for Gods sake??????? or am I destroying the community by actually discussing the topic and not making childish jokes
????Yes this is a serious topic but some related humor is OK as long as the thread doesn't derail.
It's back on track now, folks please continue the discussion on topic and without the personal commentary.
07-14-10, 07:59 PM
#71
Our second car is an 09 vibe awd (a Matrix with a 110 outlet and a lower price cauz GM is bust).
Let's look at how GM handles the recall
GM sent a recall notice (a yellow post card) mentioning the local dealer to see. Rel short on the details.
Call the shop and schedule the fix.
Come in the next day. You pull in and one guy asks if I want windshield fluid. I am used to Lexus doing this so I just smile at the guy. He starts with saying it is free. Kind a goofy execution of a welcome. The service guy says you get a free tire rotation because GM feels bad they went broke.
I say ok I'll do an oil and filter while I am here. The guy says that's free too.
They had free wifi in the waiting area but I was the only one using it. Everyone else was watching TV.
The car is done and they wash it. This is at a dealer that also has caddy. The invoice says the car has been rinsed so it will dry to a spotless finish. That means the car is wet, they did not vacuum it and they left the screw on antenna in the hatch.
Let's look at how GM handles the recall
GM sent a recall notice (a yellow post card) mentioning the local dealer to see. Rel short on the details.
Call the shop and schedule the fix.
Come in the next day. You pull in and one guy asks if I want windshield fluid. I am used to Lexus doing this so I just smile at the guy. He starts with saying it is free. Kind a goofy execution of a welcome. The service guy says you get a free tire rotation because GM feels bad they went broke.
I say ok I'll do an oil and filter while I am here. The guy says that's free too.
They had free wifi in the waiting area but I was the only one using it. Everyone else was watching TV.
The car is done and they wash it. This is at a dealer that also has caddy. The invoice says the car has been rinsed so it will dry to a spotless finish. That means the car is wet, they did not vacuum it and they left the screw on antenna in the hatch.
07-15-10, 11:48 AM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota says "we're not implying everything is driver error, absolutely not"
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/15/f...ything-is-dri/
That's the word from Toyota spokesperson Mike Michels on the automaker's investigation of some 2,000 vehicles reported to suffer from unintended acceleration.
Speaking with The New York Times, Michels said that a small amount of Toyota vehicles had issues with sticking accelerators, while a large number of the cases involved the previously recalled floor mats interfering with the pedals. However, he notes, none of these cases have resulted in a crash.
More importantly, and seemingly in-line with The Wall Street Journal's earlier report that human error was likely the cause of most unintended acceleration claims, Michels says "in instances where they reported having their foot on the brake pedal, there is very clear evidence that this is pedal misapplication."
Toyota says that its investigation into all the cases of unintended acceleration remains ongoing, and for its part, NHTSA continues to claim that it has reached "no conclusions" about the causes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/bu...er=rss&emc=rss
DETROIT — Toyota said Wednesday that its investigation of about 2,000 vehicles reported to experience sudden acceleration found evidence that sticking accelerator pedals and interference by floor mats — the subjects of two big recalls — did indeed cause some of the incidents.
Steve Hockstein/Bloomberg News
Toyota had already recalled a pedal and floor mats faulted for sudden acceleration.
It is the first time since the recalls that Toyota has acknowledged that its internal review, which is continuing, found sudden-acceleration complaints to be valid. The carmaker did not disclose how many of the incidents had been caused by the sticky pedals and floor mats.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 3,000 complaints about sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles and is conducting its own examination of them. The agency said in a statement on Wednesday that it had reached “no conclusions” about the causes.
A Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said the company’s investigation involved inspecting the vehicles and downloading data from onboard recorders if a crash occurred. Mr. Michels said the investigation found sticking accelerator pedals in a small number of vehicles and a larger number with floor mats that interfered with pedals.
He said none of the vehicles with a sticking pedal was involved in a crash, and he did not know how many of those identified as having problematic floor mats had crashed.
The Toyota review pointed to human error in most instances when a vehicle crashed while the driver was trying to brake, Mr. Michels said. Nearly all of the crashes in those instances resulted from “pedal misapplication,” meaning the driver mistakenly pressed the accelerator instead of the brake, he said.
No evidence of malfunctioning electronic throttle systems has been found, Mr. Michels said.
“We’re not implying that everything is driver error, absolutely not,” he said. “But in instances where they reported having their foot on the brake pedal, there is very clear evidence that this is pedal misapplication.”
The Wall Street Journal, citing anonymous sources, reported Tuesday that federal transportation officials had examined event data recorders from dozens of Toyota vehicles and had found open throttles and no evidence of braking. Some media outlets referred to the report as vindication of Toyota, whose supporters had argued that reports of the problems were overblown.
Sean Kane, the president of Safety Research and Strategies, a Massachusetts consulting firm that is working with lawyers suing Toyota, said data recorders that did not show braking were “far from an exoneration of Toyota and its electronics.”
Mr. Kane said that driver error was always assumed to be the cause of at least some of the complaints but that the recorders alone could not prove that a car did not accelerate on its own.
“You can’t ignore the fact that when they move to an electronic throttle control you basically see a fourfold increase in complaints,” Mr. Kane said. He also said the event data recorders rely “on the same sensing system that is unable to detect the failure to begin with,” and is therefore not “an independent witness.”
Toyota has recalled about 8.5 million vehicles worldwide since November to resolve the floor-mat interference and sticking pedal problems. Some vehicles are subject to both recalls. In issuing the recalls, Toyota acknowledged the problems, but it had not conducted as thorough a review of the complaints.
After the recalls were announced, regulators were flooded with more complaints from drivers who say their Toyota or Lexus accelerated suddenly, or from family members of crash victims alleging a defect was responsible.
The complaints attribute 93 deaths to sudden acceleration by one of the Japanese carmaker’s vehicles. The government ordered Toyota to pay a record $16.4 million fine for waiting too long to initiate a recall after learning that its accelerator pedals contained a defect.
The N.H.T.S.A. is working with the National Academy of Sciences and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to investigate causes of the sudden acceleration reports. The agency received 10 machines capable of interpreting Toyota’s vehicles’ data recorders from the carmaker, but the recorders typically are activated only when the vehicle’s air bag deploys.
Toyota has in various court cases argued against using data from the recorders as reliable sources of evidence. Mr. Michels acknowledged the technology to be “in development” but said it was “maturing” and did provide valuable information.
“What we’re finding is that the E.D.R.’s information is consistent with everything else that is known or determined about the incident,” he said.
The widespread attention given to Toyota’s issues with sudden acceleration has prompted many of the affected vehicles’ owners to have repairs performed more quickly than recalls are usually performed.
Mr. Michels said dealers had fixed nearly 80 percent of the 2.3 million vehicles in the United States included in the sticking pedal recall and about half of the 5.4 million recalled for their floor mats. The carmaker has yet to announce repair procedures for some of the models in the floor-mat recall, including the high-volume Corolla compact sedan.
That's the word from Toyota spokesperson Mike Michels on the automaker's investigation of some 2,000 vehicles reported to suffer from unintended acceleration.
Speaking with The New York Times, Michels said that a small amount of Toyota vehicles had issues with sticking accelerators, while a large number of the cases involved the previously recalled floor mats interfering with the pedals. However, he notes, none of these cases have resulted in a crash.
More importantly, and seemingly in-line with The Wall Street Journal's earlier report that human error was likely the cause of most unintended acceleration claims, Michels says "in instances where they reported having their foot on the brake pedal, there is very clear evidence that this is pedal misapplication."
Toyota says that its investigation into all the cases of unintended acceleration remains ongoing, and for its part, NHTSA continues to claim that it has reached "no conclusions" about the causes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/bu...er=rss&emc=rss
DETROIT — Toyota said Wednesday that its investigation of about 2,000 vehicles reported to experience sudden acceleration found evidence that sticking accelerator pedals and interference by floor mats — the subjects of two big recalls — did indeed cause some of the incidents.
Steve Hockstein/Bloomberg News
Toyota had already recalled a pedal and floor mats faulted for sudden acceleration.
It is the first time since the recalls that Toyota has acknowledged that its internal review, which is continuing, found sudden-acceleration complaints to be valid. The carmaker did not disclose how many of the incidents had been caused by the sticky pedals and floor mats.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 3,000 complaints about sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles and is conducting its own examination of them. The agency said in a statement on Wednesday that it had reached “no conclusions” about the causes.
A Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said the company’s investigation involved inspecting the vehicles and downloading data from onboard recorders if a crash occurred. Mr. Michels said the investigation found sticking accelerator pedals in a small number of vehicles and a larger number with floor mats that interfered with pedals.
He said none of the vehicles with a sticking pedal was involved in a crash, and he did not know how many of those identified as having problematic floor mats had crashed.
The Toyota review pointed to human error in most instances when a vehicle crashed while the driver was trying to brake, Mr. Michels said. Nearly all of the crashes in those instances resulted from “pedal misapplication,” meaning the driver mistakenly pressed the accelerator instead of the brake, he said.
No evidence of malfunctioning electronic throttle systems has been found, Mr. Michels said.
“We’re not implying that everything is driver error, absolutely not,” he said. “But in instances where they reported having their foot on the brake pedal, there is very clear evidence that this is pedal misapplication.”
The Wall Street Journal, citing anonymous sources, reported Tuesday that federal transportation officials had examined event data recorders from dozens of Toyota vehicles and had found open throttles and no evidence of braking. Some media outlets referred to the report as vindication of Toyota, whose supporters had argued that reports of the problems were overblown.
Sean Kane, the president of Safety Research and Strategies, a Massachusetts consulting firm that is working with lawyers suing Toyota, said data recorders that did not show braking were “far from an exoneration of Toyota and its electronics.”
Mr. Kane said that driver error was always assumed to be the cause of at least some of the complaints but that the recorders alone could not prove that a car did not accelerate on its own.
“You can’t ignore the fact that when they move to an electronic throttle control you basically see a fourfold increase in complaints,” Mr. Kane said. He also said the event data recorders rely “on the same sensing system that is unable to detect the failure to begin with,” and is therefore not “an independent witness.”
Toyota has recalled about 8.5 million vehicles worldwide since November to resolve the floor-mat interference and sticking pedal problems. Some vehicles are subject to both recalls. In issuing the recalls, Toyota acknowledged the problems, but it had not conducted as thorough a review of the complaints.
After the recalls were announced, regulators were flooded with more complaints from drivers who say their Toyota or Lexus accelerated suddenly, or from family members of crash victims alleging a defect was responsible.
The complaints attribute 93 deaths to sudden acceleration by one of the Japanese carmaker’s vehicles. The government ordered Toyota to pay a record $16.4 million fine for waiting too long to initiate a recall after learning that its accelerator pedals contained a defect.
The N.H.T.S.A. is working with the National Academy of Sciences and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to investigate causes of the sudden acceleration reports. The agency received 10 machines capable of interpreting Toyota’s vehicles’ data recorders from the carmaker, but the recorders typically are activated only when the vehicle’s air bag deploys.
Toyota has in various court cases argued against using data from the recorders as reliable sources of evidence. Mr. Michels acknowledged the technology to be “in development” but said it was “maturing” and did provide valuable information.
“What we’re finding is that the E.D.R.’s information is consistent with everything else that is known or determined about the incident,” he said.
The widespread attention given to Toyota’s issues with sudden acceleration has prompted many of the affected vehicles’ owners to have repairs performed more quickly than recalls are usually performed.
Mr. Michels said dealers had fixed nearly 80 percent of the 2.3 million vehicles in the United States included in the sticking pedal recall and about half of the 5.4 million recalled for their floor mats. The carmaker has yet to announce repair procedures for some of the models in the floor-mat recall, including the high-volume Corolla compact sedan.
