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Honda to kill RL/Legend(update not anymore but no one knows its alive so it is dead)

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Old 07-16-10, 04:14 PM
  #31  
STIG
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Honda is the saddest car company ever.
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Old 07-16-10, 06:13 PM
  #32  
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It's better off. The sales are beyond horrible
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Old 07-16-10, 06:15 PM
  #33  
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MMarshall clearly my comments were not aimed at you. That said some solid feeling doors and a nice interior won't cut it when its lackluster pretty much everywhere else.

In the ultimate slap in the face, its not even the competition that put the final nail in its coffin, its their own USDM Accord and TL. They offer 3 vehicles that drive similar, have similar interiors, similar engines and similar sizes.

Acura simply cannot compete past the 40k mark outside the MDX and ANY SUV sells. Without them significantly investing to move upward they will forever be fighting themselves in the sub 40k market.
 
Old 07-16-10, 07:15 PM
  #34  
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I think if you take the beak off, knock a few thousand off and sell it as the TL, I think it would do better.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:43 PM
  #35  
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Acura RL Safe: No Phase Out Planned

Earlier this morning, reports emerged that the Acura RL, bawdy bionic beavertooth grille and all, might soon be headed to the scrap heap of history, but Acura has released a brief missive putting the kibosh on any such talk. The Acura RL is alive and well, and will continue to be the flagship for the brand.

Gary Robins, manager of Acura public relations in the U.S., released the following statement: "This morning erroneous media reports began to surface suggesting that Acura's RL model would be discontinued. These reports are untrue. The RL continues to be the flagship for the Acura brand and we have no plans to discontinue it."




It appears the reports were wrong, the RL is not getting discontinued according to Acura manager of public relations Gary Robins. Acura claims the unverified media reports today from a few sources that they are discontinuing the RL were erroneous and untrue. They did not mention anything about the Legend but it is unlikely the Legend sold in other markets either would be discontinued if the RL is staying in the Acura lineup.

Last edited by UDel; 07-16-10 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:59 PM
  #36  
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I think that Honda is just in a "bad place" with Acura because they corporately want to be an environmentally conscious company, so by giving into the masses and just throwing a V8 and RWD out there would sort of go against their Mission Statement of sorts. Then again, what are they in business to do? Make cars that make money.

So, there's always this balancing act of trying to be responsible and profitable and for a long time now, the profitability side has taken a hit. I think that much of there recent problems are not necessarily from mechanical executions, but from very subjective design aspect. The vehicles have become too polarized (for the bad).
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Old 07-16-10, 08:28 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by UDel
Acura RL Safe: No Phase Out Planned

Earlier this morning, reports emerged that the Acura RL, bawdy bionic beavertooth grille and all, might soon be headed to the scrap heap of history, but Acura has released a brief missive putting the kibosh on any such talk. The Acura RL is alive and well, and will continue to be the flagship for the brand.

Gary Robins, manager of Acura public relations in the U.S., released the following statement: "This morning erroneous media reports began to surface suggesting that Acura's RL model would be discontinued. These reports are untrue. The RL continues to be the flagship for the Acura brand and we have no plans to discontinue it."




It appears the reports were wrong, the RL is not getting discontinued according to Acura manager of public relations Gary Robins. Acura claims the unverified media reports today from a few sources that they are discontinuing the RL were erroneous and untrue. They did not mention anything about the Legend but it is unlikely the Legend sold in other markets either would be discontinued if the RL is staying in the Acura lineup.
Yes b/c we all know Acura's word is golden and they mean what they say. I mean lets look at their track record, it is impeccable;
-Acura debuting in Japan
-V-8 is coming
-RWD is coming
-Tier 1 is coming
-NSX is coming


Yup they all came to pass. I believe them! LMFAO at this guy, he doesn't even know what their flag**** is. Is it the Zitdx or the RL?

Oh wait......

I mean read this......they claim the ZDX is their future and the way Acura is going. If selling 230 cars a month is the future and hitting half a low 6,000 sales target is the future just CANCEL the BRAND. Talk about full of fail

You likely do not know Michelle Christensen and it's just as likely very few people inside Acura, Honda's premium brand, know much about her, either.

So it's interesting and not a little ironic to see Acura putting its future – at least the future of the brand's image – into the hands of this effervescent young woman from California. Yes, she is blonde and pretty, but don't be misled; she apparently possesses not-inconsiderable talent.

Three years ago, Christensen, at the time a 25-year-old new hire fresh out of design school, penned a sketch that has become the 2010 Acura ZDX crossover utility vehicle. The car will go on sale in December for a price somewhere between $55,000-$60,000. And some would argue that it's the most important Acura model ever.

Jeff Conrad, vice president of Acura sales (left), unveiled the all-new Acura ZDX prototype during the vehicle's world debut at the New York International Auto Show today. Joining Conrad are (from left) ZDX designers Damon Schell, Michelle Christensen and Michael Wiedeman.

Jeff Conrad, vice president of Acura sales (left), unveiled the all-new Acura ZDX prototype during the vehicle's world debut at the New York International Auto Show today. Joining Conrad are (from left) ZDX designers Damon Schell, Michelle Christensen and Michael Wiedeman.

Acura ZDX chief engineer Gary Evert, a 20-year Honda engineering veteran and the former chief engineer of the Acura RDX small CUV, says the ZDX is the brand's “statement vehicle.”

“It's a statement about where Acura is going,” he says in Los Angeles at a press preview for the assembled-in-Ontario ZDX. “This vehicle is all about image. If we had lost that, we might as well not have done the vehicle.”

Acura expects, or at least hopes, the ZDX will change public perceptions of what has long been a slightly down-market premium brand.

Acura has never really and truly aspired to push against the big luxury players like Germany's BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi. And unlike the other Japanese premium brands such as Lexus (Toyota) and Infiniti (Nissan), Acura has never tried to challenge the Germans with bold designs, novel technologies and bad-boy performance.

Acura's niche has been what you might call the “budget premium” segment. Essentially, that meant dressing up Honda vehicles with more equipment, bigger wheels and tires, more horsepower and often only slightly modified designs and calling them Acuras.

By not being overly bold, Acura has tried to carve out its own little corner of affordable upscale cars delivered through an exclusive dealer network. One problem with that strategy is that the established premium brands have been relentlessly pushing down-market themselves with vehicles like the Mercedes B-Class. Acura is feeling the squeeze.

Acura's product strategy is also changing. That is, it's not unusual for mainstream auto makers to take an everyday platform like the one used for the Honda Accord and turn it into the Acura TL. Lexus does this by upgrading the Camry into the ES 350, for instance.

However, Acura has taken the platform-sharing strategy further than its rivals. The Acura RL is essentially the Honda Legend in Europe and elsewhere and they look quite similar, other than the grilles. The Acura TSX is the Euro Honda Accord and they, too, like very much alike.

Our Canadian Acura TL starts life as the North American Honda Accord, though here the Acura gets an all-wheel-drive option, more power and loads more gizmos and gadgets. The Acura MDX CUV? Again, the basics are the Honda Pilot, though the designs are totally different and the Acura is tuned for performance driving and, like the TL, has quite the assortment of electronic toys.

The Acura CSX? Again, a Honda Civic with slight design differences, racier chassis tuning and more equipment. The Acura RDX compact CUV? The RDX shares its chassis with the Honda CR-V, but only the Acura gets super-handling all-wheel-drive (SH-AWD) and a turbocharged motor.

The point is, Acura has not really had a totally unique platform. Even the much-loved and admired NSX was sold as the Honda NSX in other markets outside North America. And that remains true for the ZDX. Its roots can be found in the MDX and it will roll off the same Alliston, Ont., assembly line as the Honda.

But something different is going on here. Aside from its function-follows-form design, Evert and his engineering confreres say the ZDX rides and handles like nothing else in the Acura lineup, in particular the MDX.

The ZDX's steering is tighter, the braking more precise, the cornering flatter and the performance more exhilarating than the MDX – which by the way gets a massive mid-cycle facelift of its own for the 2010 model year.

Gorgeous as it is, the ZDX is not nearly as practical as the MDX, either – but it is the best-looking Acura yet.

Evert and the rest have taken a bold step in that they've chosen here to put form ahead of function, to go with a design that does not carry as much stuff as the MDX and is not as comfortable in the back seat.

Also, unlike the MDX, the ZDX does not even have a third row of seats. And if you want to stuff four sets of golf clubs into the cargo bay, you'll have to remove two panels – one on each side – that hide storage areas just aft of the rear wheel wells. The panels store nicely away in a third storage area under the cargo floor.

The RDX design, the one Christensen submitted and which comes to market almost entirely unchanged from the original, is wide and sexy, with slingshot-like taut lines and an all-glass roof that alone represents quite a feat of engineering. The cabin, too, is richly conceived and executed, with perhaps the most elegant rendering of leather ever seen in a vehicle under, say, $100,000.

But it's not what Evert wants to call Acura's flagship or a “halo” vehicle. No, he'll only go so far as to say it's a “statement” about Acura. Translation: Acura wants to transition from premium brand to full-on luxury and the ZDX is pioneering the way.

“This is where we want to go,” he says, adding, “If the market decides it's a halo vehicle, I'll be very happy about that. But it's our customers who decide that, not us.”

The big, overarching question, of course, is which customers? Right now, Acura is losing them at a fairly scary clip in Canada, though Honda/Acura executive vice-president Jerry Chenkin says both brands are on track to be profitable – as part of Honda's global goal of remaining profitable despite the global financial crisis which is wreaking havoc on car company profits.

Yet there is no easy way to dress up the numbers. Acura sales in Canada are down 20.2 per cent on the year while Lexus is up 11.3 per cent, BMW is up 5.8 per cent and Mercedes-Benz is up 17.9 per cent.

Chenkin is quick to point out that Acura's Canadian market share is off by only one-tenth of a percentage point, down to 1.1 per cent from 1.2 in 2008. So Acura remains “competitive” given the market, he says.

The car business is all about growth, though. If Acura wants more customers and more of them paying a (profitable) premium for its vehicles, the brand needs to become more distinctive still.

That's why 21 years after Honda created its Acura luxury division in 1986, the brand finally has its own design studio and Christensen's ZDX design is the first new model from it.

Yes, it's true that Honda's U.S. styling team designed several past Acura models – the 1994 Integra, 1995 CL coupe and 2000 TL sedan among them. But it's also true that even Honda's own designers were concerned about excessive overlap between the Honda and Acura models being drawn at Honda's studio in Torrance, Calif.

Now Acura has its own designers working in their own space on Honda's sprawling Torrance campus. Honda and Acura designers are no longer all jumbled up; instead, the Acura types are more independent to create unique models using Acura's “Keen Edge” design language.

Keen Edge? We first saw that look in the Advanced Sports Car Concept at the 2007 Detroit auto show. It was a swoop-y, angular adaptation of the NSX super car and at the time Acura appeared set to turn that concept into a production version of the next NSX. The next NSX may have been shot down, however the design philosophy was not.

Going forward and starting with the ZDX, Acuras should have sheet metal with “machine-like” surfacing and highly “emotional lines.” Up front, the big, distinctive Acura grille is marked by a “power plenum.” This feature is referred to informally as “the beak” at Acura.

Acuras also must easily integrate loads of technology in a user-friendly way. Think Wall-E , not Terminator .

Finally, and unlike in the past, the entire Acura family will look like it belongs in the same showroom.

And to think that the latest change – at least in terms of actual production models – started with a fresh-faced 25-year-old Californian who drew an aggressive CUV design. It will be interesting to see if Christenson turns out to be the auto design equivalent of Mozart, or will she be Tom Hulce, the one-hit actor who played Mozart in the Academy Award-winning movie Amadeus .
 
Old 07-16-10, 08:47 PM
  #38  
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My roomate, one of those obnoxiously devout Legend enthusiasts (whom I know are here), will be crushed to hear that he can no longer say that "Legends never die" whereas I will be wondering around the apartment going "Legacies prevail." ....Subaru rocks.


....ahh but seriously, this Acura Legend cult crap freaks me out. Who lowers a large midsize, FWD, longitudinally mounted, Acura sedan? Honestly.
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Old 07-16-10, 09:04 PM
  #39  
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This is a confusing mess. Honda/Acura is too big a brand to let this foolishness persist. I really hope this is sorted out in a timely manner as they are quickly becoming a bad joke in the automotive world. Perhaps they should take a few lessons from Hyundai on how to do it right, since they've seemingly given up their pursuit of Nissan and Toyota.
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Old 07-16-10, 10:38 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Mike, I greatly respect your view (always have, of course) , but count me in with at least some of those fanbois. I agree that some may have been over-zealous, but I don't see where anything I've ever said about the car was illogical. I correctly stated its good points and bad points. Some, like styling, of course, are subjective. A lot of people criticized it for its lack of a V8 and RWD...there is some merit to that view, but I don't entirely agree with it. Its build quality and fit/finish, not necessarily in terms of super-reliability, but in terms of material solidness, was, IMO, up at the very top of regular production cars. It was one of the very few cars you could sit in today, shut the door, and get a SOLID "Thunk" like with the M-B and BMW products of 20-30 years ago.

Yes, it had some faults....any car does. I didn't care for its dash-controller/screen syatem any more than I do in competing cars, but at least was solid and not a flimsy-feeling ****. The car was maybe a little smaller than I think a true flagship should be. The big V6 had more HP than it did torque...and the SH/AWD sapped some of the torque. The dash was a little over-styled, maybe, around the main gauges. And the parrot-beak grille on later models was, yes, abominable.

But, long after this car has been gone, I'm not likely going to be changing anything I ever said about it, good or bad. And I might, though not certain, be driving a CPO vesion some day....it was a little too expensive for me as a new car.


And, just to be honest, if you remember, I did a CL thread not long ago on the question of whether Acura should be dropped as an entire division or not. Opinion, of course, was mixed on that...as was mine.

Mmarshal, I really appreciate your posts here (CL), very cool headed, unbiased and mature. You should be the moderator
I owned a RL before my GS460 and it was probably one of the best cars I've ever owned (I own/have owned Lexus/Acura/Infiniti..only japanese for me, thanks). I agree the current styling is really appalling and I would never consider going back to Acura until they drop that silly grille but as a car enthusiast, I must say the SHAWD with its torque vectoring system was a real blast, just unbelievable. A real driver's car. Interior-wise, I don't see much difference but I did like the craftmanship and ergonomics.
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Old 07-17-10, 07:43 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by LexGuy2
Mmarshal, I really appreciate your posts here (CL), very cool headed, unbiased and mature. You should be the moderator
Thanks. The mods we have do a good job as it is.


I owned a RL before my GS460 and it was probably one of the best cars I've ever owned (I own/have owned Lexus/Acura/Infiniti..only japanese for me, thanks). I agree the current styling is really appalling and I would never consider going back to Acura until they drop that silly grille but as a car enthusiast, I must say the SHAWD with its torque vectoring system was a real blast, just unbelievable. A real driver's car. Interior-wise, I don't see much difference but I did like the craftmanship and ergonomics.
Are you going to keep your GS460, or trade for another RL while they are still available? (They will probably be discounted, and some dealerships paint the grilles body-color at the customer request.....that lessens their effect).


The RL and GS are both great cars, IMO. It's too bad that the GS460 (to my knowledge) never got the AWD option that the GS300/350 did. AWD GS models, though, according to Consumer Reports, have been less-reliable than RWD ones.
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Old 07-17-10, 07:55 AM
  #42  
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LOL...2010 RL rumors here and lol at some of the posts...

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ml#post3368341

LOL, Acura looks to be top luxury brand

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ml#post3576839

LOL 2011 RWD RL spied

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-acura-rl.html

I don't know how anyone can continue to support this brand as they have simply spit in the face of their loyal fans for over a decade with promises and lies that never came to light.

Honda clearly has no hopes for Acura and this is evident by what they produce. People need to move on and realize their Unicorn(s) are just that. Unicorns.


While they still don't know what to do with the RL other auto brands have continued to improve and move the ball;

Infiniti has a new M37/56 with 330/429hp and M35 hybrid is coming.
Jaguar got rid of the average S-type and the XF has 3 V-8 options
The E class went back to quality and crasftmanship and is selling lot hotcakes
The 5 series is new and has 300 and 400hp turbo engines
Even Saab has a new 9-5 with turbos and AWD.
Lincoln got in the picture with the MKS with a 365 eco-boost engine
Hyundai offers a 380hp RWD V-8 Genesis
Next will be whatever Lexus comes with the GS
 
Old 07-17-10, 07:59 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
MMarshall clearly my comments were not aimed at you. That said some solid feeling doors and a nice interior won't cut it when its lackluster pretty much everywhere else.
It's got a lot of good features, but I wasn't going to write a whole book about it in just one or two posts.....I save that for the reviews.



In the ultimate slap in the face, its not even the competition that put the final nail in its coffin, its their own USDM Accord and TL. They offer 3 vehicles that drive similar, have similar interiors, similar engines and similar sizes.
Are you referring to the TSX with the (USDM) Accord? The TSX is actually taken from the the non-U.S.-version Accord. But I agree there are a lot of similarities between the TSX and TL and the way they drive....though the TSX is slightly smaller. The RL's interior, though, is clearly an upgrade from both.

The TSX Sportwagon, when it debuts, I think, will be worth looking at....even more so if (?) it gets the SH/AWD. Like the Cadillac CTS Sportwagon I just reviewed, it will be a unique vehicle within the brand.

Acura simply cannot compete past the 40k mark outside the MDX and ANY SUV sells. Without them significantly investing to move upward they will forever be fighting themselves in the sub 40k market.
Acura DID invest upward past the admittedly good-selling MDX...and look at the ZDX disaster we got as a result. What you mean is that they have to invest correctly.
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Old 07-17-10, 08:06 AM
  #44  
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Another Acura thread with no unicorns?

I'll fix that.
Attached Thumbnails Honda to kill RL/Legend(update not anymore but no one knows its alive so it is dead)-0005k5pb.jpeg   Honda to kill RL/Legend(update not anymore but no one knows its alive so it is dead)-exterface_unicorn_08.jpg   Honda to kill RL/Legend(update not anymore but no one knows its alive so it is dead)-12958638_2.jpg  
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Old 07-17-10, 08:12 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

I don't know how anyone can continue to support this brand as they have simply spit in the face of their loyal fans for over a decade with promises and lies that never came to light.
The most obvious example of a promise that never came to light was, of course, the "new" NSX. We had constantly changine stories/projects on that for for years (most of which were posted on CL), and then, finally..................


While they still don't know what to do with the RL other auto brands have continued to improve and move the ball
As far as "what to do" with it, apparantly Acura didn't want to invest any more money into a car that wasn't selling. As some here on CL would say, that was probably a good buisness decision.

Lincoln got in the picture with the MKS with a 365 eco-boost engine
It still isn't a V8, though the MKS, to its credit, does have the AWD option that its Town Car predecessor never got.

I've sampled the EcoBoost engine in a couple of vehicles (not the MKS yet), and, yes, while it will get out of its own way, I wasn't terribly impressed with it. I think its torque figure may (?) be a little over-rated. A number of the vehicles it comes in, of course, are AWD.....and that, of course, also saps some of the torque.
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