nthach

Don't you mean W210?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

hey, i contributed to that euro number

I8ABMR

check the recall threads. They are slipping. Its no secret. Just the valve recall is enough to me, let alone all of the other stuff going on from the IS to the LS. Regardless of what we say there will always be people making excuses for Lexus' lack of previous track record. If you want more example look at Toyotas ranking for initial quality this year. Its dismal.

LexFather

They sky is falling. EVERYONE SELL YOUR FANCY TOYOTAS.

Lexus might be ... Gosh... 2nd in sales here... What a bad thing!

IS-SV

Wow with all that doom and gloom reported here, I'm surprised my Lexus dealer is enjoying significantly stronger sales in 2010 versus 2009. While waiting for my oil change this morning I spent an hour talking to one of the better senior salesman that I know well. (But they ended up giving me a loaner when they determined the AC drain needed to be replaced per TSIB).

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i most definitely agree lexus quality has dropped the past few years.

but i just love how some blow the valve spring recall out of proportion and think that's the end

Fizzboy7

I am 100% positive Lexus sales have been slipping ONLY due to the fact their line-up is old. The IS, ES, GS, and even LS have all been out for a long time and are due for makeovers. When these models are redone, Lexus will pop right back up. We went through a similar "slump" back in the 90's when the same thing happened with old models. Of course everyone else (the media) wants to panic and label the company's quality as the reason, but it's BS. This would happen to any car company with older products. Toyota and Lexus followers are not that weak to run away. They are just waiting for new cars to excite them.

RXSF

^^ interesting point.

Fizzboy7

New GS will help. No new IS will hurt. Big mistake approving a second IS facelift instead of an all-new model (double facelifts are almost unheard of in this segment). If Lexus was trying to save money by stretching out the life of the 2IS, they will lose their savings with more lost marketshare. The numbers will continue to shrink as a new 3-Series and G37 debut shortly, and the A4 and C-Class get facelifts.

I wish Lexus luck, but I think they shot themselves in the foot by not spending the money on new products.

Tee

I think it is way over blown, we are talking about a 2% chance of the valve springs going bad. Also you have to be naive to not see the media public lynching of Toyota was really about. Over the years there have been some really bad recalls and none turned into a media storm like what Toyota went thru, not even the Firestone/Ford fiasco was this bad.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i think it's more like 0.2%

but yes, when reading news (especially through media), one has to think really carefully about what's going on and draw the right conclusion, rather than just believing everything (think matrix? hehe...)

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Exactly. As long as these manufacturers don't slack off and make crappy products.

MB can have the throne for all I care

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I am quickly reminded of this thread.

Now, a few other points. Years ago we read articles about how the Germans were teetering back and forth between black ink and red, looking for ways to expand economies of scale, reduce costs, and become more profitable. Lexus has the benefit of parent company Toyota and Audi has VWAG, but BMW and Mercedes relationships have historically been either less successful, less comprehensive, or disastrous (Diamler Chrysler).

Not long after such reports circulated, the CLS popped up...a E class derivative that costs $20,000 more. The R class arrived with modified E class architecture and uglier sheetmetal, the CLK was consolidated into the E Class line, the GL was born using modified ML hardware and the GLK wasn't much different. BMW hatched out the X3, X6, imported the 1 Series, and is now looking at Gran Coupe and Gran Tourismo versions of its existing line up....arguably all in an effort to keep an eye on costs, economies, and the checkbook.

Meanwhile, Lexus stuck to much the same gameplan that they had before. The IS line was diversified which was only logical, and hybrid variants were added to a few models. The GX came as a way to easily fill the void between LX and RX, but the model blitz was not anything like the Germans. Last year we got the HS and this year the CT will arrive - next year LFA deliveries will start. The HS has not been quite the success story that Lexus was hoping for, but perhaps that will change with the next generation. The CT is a obviously a product intended for European markets, but due to a growing entry level class in America, we get will get it too. LFA is too low-volume to even worry about.

During this time (and still today) Lexus was successful and far more profitable than Mercedes and BMW were, which is why they have not been launching models as aggressively in the last ten years. The Germans were faced with mounting uncertainty and rising costs, and did what they could to diversify their product offerings in an inexpensive manner. Guess what? It worked. Between 1 Series and GLs, the public ate up most of these new models and they added significant volumes to the bottom line. Because of the German's aggressive growth strategies and Lexus' relatively conservative approach, I am not surprised to see Merc coming up on their tail. In fact, I would be surprised if Lexus remains #1 in the next 2-3 years.

Now, what will be interesting IMO is the years to come. Many of these new models are fad vehicles - the HS, the X6, R Class- or obviously overlap other vehicles within the family. There has been such a product blitz that I don't think all of them will ultimately make it to the finish line. Lexus now has three entry level sedans that are all within a few thousand dollars of eachother. BMW has the X3, X5, X6, GT models, and wagons that all seem to do almost the same thing and offer roughly similar size and features...not to mention the 5 series, 7 series, and forthcoming 6GC. Mercedes is moving towards a C coupe, E coupe, S coupe, and even calls things with 4 doors, a "coupe".

My point here is that if you want to look at sheer sales volume and model offerings, the Germans will probably overtake Lexus at some point - it's almost inevitable. On the flip side of volume you have profit which is where the Germans have struggled historically. Like I said above, it seems like these new models have "done the job" and helped move more vehicles and reduce costs, but it will be interesting to see how they manage such dense portfolios in the future.

My .02

encore888

Yes, it's become a new model for every niche, including many that people weren't necessarily looking for. However Lexus has always had fewer models that the competition, the key is to make them more value-based, acclaimed, etc. and thus more popular. A number of these niche models don't add much (cute-ute, coupe SUV, etc.) other than variety. However, with parent company Toyota making so many car models worldwide, they definitely have the resources to do more. The question is whether they want to profitably do so.

BMW already has a goal of taking the crown next year, Lexus has had a good 10 year run, but they've got a PR target on their backs with this 'when will the Germans overtake' blah blah blah. As much as I'd like to see them avoid the PR difficulties of losing the crown, I'd like also to see them have a more cohesive and successful lineup.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

and more important, strengthen the foundation on what made lexus so successful the past 10 years (quality, services, attention to details, etc...). the past few years they had shifted focus a little bit too much, and that sort of caused what happens today. if they go back to the basic, that will get them back on track and come back stronger for a wider / stronger lineup