IS-SV

That's a great color, for a fire truck

Yes, some cities have them for safety reasons.

IS-SV

Oh, btw, I forget to mention, nice review.

mmarshall

Thanks.

Benwilliam

I work for a rental company and have sampled the new Fiesta at length, including behind the wheel. I appreciate the reviewer's effort put into the review, but I have to disagree with many of the findings.

The OP states that "the doors did not close with a very solid thunk". I will completely disagree with this statement and go as far as to say that the doors close with BMW-levels of solidness and quality. It is apparent to me that the vehicle is from the European unit of Ford, and not the same one that designed the current Focus. The difference between the sound of the doors between this vehicle and say, a Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris, is nearly night a day. I find absolutely no comparison, and so I have to fully disagree with the findings of the reviewer.

I further find it nonsensical to state that the lack of "body-side moldings" equates to "cost cutting", especially in this segment. Consider that vehicles like a Corolla or Focus do not come equipped "body-side moldings". This is simply not an expected feature in this class and the lack of it should not be held against the Fiesta as a negative attribute.

The OP also states that the "black and matte-silver plastic interior trim looked dull and cheap". The key here is "looked", and is indicative of a personal opinion. There is no effective way to argue that the interior quality and materials of the Fiesta are anything other than surprisingly upscale and posh for this segment. The entire dash is padded in materials accustomed in a vehicle three times the price. Every surface is treated with detailing and the vast variety of different textures and colors is surprising for the price range. Again, it is evident this vehicle comes from Ford's European division v. the American outlet.

In sum, the interior of the Fiesta, relative to the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris, is nearly night and day. The latter two are awash in hard plastics on most surfaces where the Fiesta has soft-touch materials, upscale amenities, and surprising attention to small details (such as the stitching of the leather seats). All in all, the Fiesta clearly feels more sophisticated than the current volume leaders here in America, and the futuristic-looking dash both looks and feels very European, which is a good thing when one samples the products that come out of Dearborn.

The OP further states that the turn signals stalks " feel flimsy and cheap". I will further disagree and state that the turn signal stalks feel like they would in any other European-designed car. They are different from ones found in a current Focus, for example, but there is nothing "flimsy and cheap" in my opinion. They feel every bit as solid as stalks found in a BMW costing three times as much.

All in all, I thank the OP for a thorough review, even if I found aspects which I depart with him on. We share similar praise for many other aspects of this great new vehicle from Ford.

Benwilliam

I will now comment on the driving impressions that the OP has noted:

Firstly, the OP has failed to state the fact that the Fiesta comes with a dual-clutch transmission, a feature that is nearly-shocking for this class and price-range. Items like this further solidify the Fiesta's status as a mature, sophisticated and refined small car designed for European roads. Americans are now seeing positive spill-over benefits, because the Fiesta also drives like a refined vehicle that costs more than it actually does, an attribute that I don't feel the OP's review indicated.

The OP states that the Fiesta's "Engine noise/vibration level is OK but a little unrefined". I find this statement very far from what I view as the truth. The engine, in my driving time, is very refined, and noise levels are far below that of the noisy Fit and Yaris. Again, the latter two vehicles feel cheaper behind the wheel than the Fiesta, which feels more substantial, more planted, and just more composed and refined. There is no way around this reality from my experience.

The OP further states that the Fiesta has a "Borderline-choppy ride, but OK by subcompact standards". Again, I disagree with this statement. I find the Fiesta to have a refined ride by subcompact standards, very European in feel, clearly superior to that of the wallowy and frankly hollow feeling Yaris, and the somewhat frenetic ride of a Honda Fit.

Where the OP has lost me is with the statement that both the Fit and Fiesta have "mediocre" chassis and handling capabilities. I find the statement to be almost disingenuous as the Honda Fit alone is quite possibly one of the most rousing and entertaining handling vehicles on the road today. I find the Fiesta not to feel quite as quick and go-cart-esque as the Honda, but in a more relaxed, "I'm older and more refined" kind of way.

As far as the Fiesta being "brand-new in the American market" and "[having] no track record.", the Fiesta has a long history in Europe, and the current model has proven reliable as it has been on the market for the past two years.

mmarshall

I have reviewed many BMWs, and know what their sheet metal and door solidness is like. The Chris-bangle-designed BMWs did not seem as solid as their predecessors. Still, on the specific Fiestas I looked at, the doors semes a little on the thin side, and dod not close with a solid think. That was my findings, and i stand by them.

Incorrect. That is not what I said. I simply said that not providing them is cost-cutting, period. Many more expensive cars, today, lack them, too.

Agreed.....but the silver plastic was not particularly well-done compared to some others I've seen. Yes, that is my opinion.


Re-read what I said in the review. I SPECIFICALLY stated that the dash was well-padded.


That's the problem...the stalks are similiarly cheap in many European-designed cars as well, particularly VWs.





And thank you for your input. You, of course, are invited to review the car yourself (and post it here) if you want to. You have practically done that now.

mmarshall

My experience has been that Toyota and Honda four-cylinders are among the smoothest on the market. They are known, especially, for a silky idle and the ability to go to redline with the smoothness of an electric motor. I did not find that in the Fiesta.....and the twin-clutch tranny, while sophisticated, did not seem to get the car rolling very quickly. That was not helped by the slight but noticeable surging in the EFI system in my specific test-car.

That's why I stated "by subcompact standards". A car this size is not expected to have the ride of an LS460.

Granted, perhaps I could have used a better term to describe the handling...you might have a point here. What I meant was that, because both the Fit and Fiesta are rather high and narrow, the resulting higher-center of gravity does not contribute to crisp handling...and, of course, there is noticeable body roll. These cars, of course, don't have sport-oriented tires on them either.

Yes, agreed. That's why I specifically said, in the review, that its reliability is as yet untested in the hands of American customers. And the American model, though similiar, has some minor differences from the Euro-version.



I may disagree with some of your findings, but again, thank you....I welcome your input. I don't expect everyone to always agree with me.

IS-SV

Good to get multiple driver perspectives on these cars, and often the same car is driven under different conditions (and for different lengths of time, different total mileage) too. Just another CL bonus, where all kinds of drivers/owners share feedback.

Regardless, it's great to see high level of interest in a small car from Ford (or from any American car company).

Benwilliam

Like I said, I will disagree. Compared to the light and seemingly flimsy feeling pieces on vehicles like a Honda Fit/Insight and Toyota Yaris/Echo, the doors on the Fiesta are substantially more weighted and close with a more solid "thunk" thank those four aforementioned Japanese products. It feels more European Ford than Dearborn Ford.

I will too further have to disagree that BMW-designed vehicles do not have doors and trunks that close with a solid thunk. Again, I find this statement nearly disingenuous, no offense to you at all, Sir. Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, and Lexus (IS/LS/GS) all have near tank-like sounding when the doors shut. Toyota designed vehicles like the Corolla/Camry/ES/Matrix/Prius/HS/ etc. and many Honda products (Accord/Civic) have much more feathery light, unsubstantial feeling sheetmetal and doors. Just my opinion and like you, I fully stand by it.



My point is that you are essentially holding the lack of the feature against the Fiesta when it is not an expected feature in any vehicle in this price-range. It's the essenes of nitpicking from my viewpoint.



I am not sure what "well-done" equates to, it seems like a vauge descriptor to me. The plastic feels solid, even if one does not care for the color of the trim, and the differentiation of textures is clearly a step up from the monotone, cheap look of it's closest competitors.




Yes, but then you went on to term the interior as a let down, which I find not true in the least.





I disagree. There is nothing more quality feeling of the "stalks" in a Toyota Corolla, for example, and if anything, I would be much more concerned with the action physical "click action" of engaging said stalk. In that regard, the Fiesta is very well damped (replete with the high-end 3-Blink feature found on more higher-end vehicles) versus, again, a Toyota Yaris, which feels like they are made to stand about five pounds of pressure before snapping right off. So I again completely disagree with this assessment. I stand by my previous statement that the stalks feel every bit as solid as those found in a BMW.

Benwilliam

There is no doubt that the Fit and Yaris have refined powerplants, but the Fiesta is not far behind. Further, I absolutely assure you the "surge" you feel as nothing to do with any sort of "EFI" issue. The talk of Carburetors is well out of place. I believe you are feeling the twin-clutches launching the vehicle differently than a torque converter



And by subcompact standars the vehicle, in my opinion and experiecne, excells to the front of the class. There is no reason to compare the vehicle to higher-priced offerings, only vehicles in it's price range and class.

Not necessarily. The only real differences are a slightly softened suspension and a reworked front architecture to meet different US safety standards. The rest of the vehicle is a carbon copy, tit for tat. Again, the only problem I have with this is that you held it against the vehicle, as a demerit, which i found nonsensical since the vehicle has been on sale in Europe )with a proven track record) for the previous two years.

mmarshall

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I did mention that the twin-clutch effect may be adding to it, but the response also is indicative of a lean fuel-mixture, which is something the eengineers seem to have dialed in to get both good mileage and low emissions. If the mixture is programmed to be too lean to start with, it doesn't mater if it's a carb of EFI.

And not all twin-clutches have that effect, either. Those from VW/Audi (DSG/Shiftronic), in my experience are a smooth as glass.

Reliability in Europe does not necessarily mean reliability in America. We found that out 25 years ago with the German-designed Ford/Mercury Merkurs, which did reasonably well in Europe but were a disaster here. That was also the case with many Renaults and Fiats. Yes, in most cases (or the majority), it is the same on both sides of the Atlantic....but we can't just blankedly assume that for the Fiesta. That's why Consumer Reports won't recommend new models, even if they perform well, until they have had a least a year or so of reliability data in their own database.....a good move, IMO.

Benwilliam

This is a borderline conspiracy theory that you have no way of substantially proving. I assure you and am nearly confident you are simply feeling the different launching characteristics of a dual-clutch transmission.

This is simply is not true. The Volkswagen "Direct Shift Gearbox" may shift quickly, but there are still many weird intermittent launching issues, especially away from a stop, This is detailed to death online, I will let you read for yourself. It is no no way indicative of any sort of "lean fuel mixture".

C. McHale

The Fiesta has better fit and finish inside than the Yaris and Fit (this isn't really too hard to accomplish), but it still didn't leave me feeling much impressed. I spent plenty of time feeling around the interior, and most of the trim was hard (although it was fitted very nicely together), and I felt the design inside was a bit cluttered. Too many buttons in too small a space.

This leaves me a little concerned with the new Focus, as I am seriously considering one (next to the new Elantra, when it comes out, and a VW Golf TDI)...I am now a snob when it comes to interiors =\

The new VW Golf has a much nicer interior than the Fiesta, or any other vehicle in its specific class. Soft touch materials all over the place, not just on the upper dash. Unfortunately, it's a bit pricey and the reliability is still something of a question.

mmarshall

I'm aware of the twin-clutch sensations you note (I've driven a number of them)....and I took that into consideration on the write-up. Some twin-clutches have that sensation...but that's different from lean-mixture surging.

There in no need for us to continue this arguement endlessly. We are just respectfully going to disagree...leave it at that.

Benwilliam

This is true, McHale, but consider the fact that the VW "Golf" is directly designed to meet European tastes, and it accomplishes that quite nicely given it's top seller status over the pond. It also isn't a subcompact and actually competes tit for tat, in high-trim levels, with Honda's similar-sized "Accord" (TSX). For Americans, the price is too high and the size too small to rationalize the added "luxury" feel all around. The car itself is very nice in the latest iteration with an interior that is easily up to standards found in a BMW 3-series (in some cases, eclipsing it crazily enough), though I am no fan of the 2.5L five cylinder engine which is rash, noisy, and fuel-sipping.