encore888

These are good points and definite possibilities. There is definitely a media hype aspect to this. I've not been inside the new Sienna, but from recent comparing CR reviews to actual vehicles, have been somewhat skeptical of their recent conclusions. They're trying to justify their existence by actively searching for potential gripes and issues to make out of things, many of which are not relevant to the actual consumer.

As for Toyota build quality itself, actually I feel that it depends on model and year; a number of new Toyota cars I've sampled overseas and some here feel much more solid and tightly-built than before. I tend to think that the early-mid 2000s was the nadir for some of their cost-cutting, and that it's come back on many models.

That being said, multiple consumer research studies show that perception lags several years behind reality, e.g. 'domestics are junk' and 'Mercedes is great/horrible'...the true judge is being there to see it for yourself, and also impartial (non subjective) testing.

LexFather

Well this Sienna was built using the PRE Toyota shakeup methods. So quite frankly expect issues until the MMC, I am sure they are hard on work on quality right now.

Glad the next GS is taking so long. I am sure they are working OT to make sure materials and quality get back to leading.

The FT-86 might just be overbuilt like Toyotas of the 1980s....and all the redesigns.

mmarshall

Yes, I agree that the interior fit/finish in these cars is not luxury-car-grade. But I was referring mostly to the overall build-solidness. ALL of the small, entry-level Toyotas and Scions have been well-above average in reliability, accoring to Consumer Reports. And, on the Yaris, when you shut the door (especially on the sedan), you get a solid thunk that even some luxury-cars don't provide. In addition, these small entry-level products have quality paint jobs that are hard to distinguish from a Lexus.

As far as the Corolla goes, I agree that some interior plastics (and, especially, the flimsy, wobbly, flat-black climate *****) could be improved, but there is no denying the car's overall reliability.

You mentioned the Fiesta. In my review (and we've already discussed this earlier), I didn't think the Fiesta's interior materials were that good either, except for the nicely-padded upper-dash and the thick, solid-feeling, vertical door-pulls.


Unfortunately, Toyota, unlike with small cars, has let the quality of some of its upper-level models slide, though the Land Cruiser is still very impressive both inside and out (it should be, of course, for the price).

mmarshall

Back to the Sienna..........the OT. Nobody, at least in this thread, seems to have brought up the Sienna's one obvious advantage over all its competitors......fit/finish issues aside, it is the only American-market minivan to offer an AWD option for bad weather. The Dodge/Chrysler minivans did at one time, but that option was dropped when the "Stow and Go" second/third-row fold-under seats were introduced. The seats, when folded and tucked down under in the wells, took up some of the space formerly occupied by the underbody AWD hardware.

(The original article mentioned the AWD, but did not bring up the point that only the Sienna offered it it)

I8ABMR

I have to say when I looked at them a couple of months ago when I was at the toyota dealership they were amazing. I looked at one that was fully loaded and I could not believe how well designed and engineered the van was. It also didn't have the fit and finish issues that Venzas have. I know this segment is competitive but I still think the sienna is a top choice. I just don't think I could go from a dropped Lexus GS to a stock van. ( I just cringed )

I am not very familiar with vans or the full scope of SUVs on the market. I was never interested in them because they are for soccer moms and large families. I do have to say if the the sienna has dropped in the ratings I can only imagine what the recommended vans have and what they can do

STIG

Just bring in the Alphard to the states. Game over!

Are you listening Toyota?

nthach

I don't trust CR for cars and paint. However, they are pretty accurate for the former than the latter.

encore888

The other recent bit is how CR lambasted Apple over alleged iPhone 4 issues, rather controversial with their 'not recommended' hyperbole, seems to be a bit of publicity seeking. I'd definitely take their conclusions with a grain of salt. Not saying that the product may not have issues, be it Toyota or otherwise, but I'd consider multiple sources in evaluations, besides one's own.

memasterac

I like the 2010 Sienna when I laid my first glance on it. I still like how beautifully it looks 1/2 years later now.

Today I finally get to check it out at the dealer, however, I left with a huge disappointment. Don't give me wrong I still like how it looks but the interior fit and finish really has a big problem. First I noticed almost all intereior surfaces are hard plastic and not so good to the touch, kind like the Venza's hard plastic. The top of line Limited costs $44K+ and the leather seats don't have the quality of a $44K car, the 3rd row cup holders use the cheapest plastic one can find in the auto industry, the open/close mechanism is bad enough that the cup holder covers don't even close flush with the arm rest. The second row captian chair arm rests feel cheap and hard to adjust. The SE version's arm rests feel even worst... (my previous 1st gen Highlander's rotating arm rests feel 10x better than this piece of ****) The plastic trim used in this van is advertising to cut your skin with the sharp edges everywhere, check the moon roofs' surrounding pieces... The complaints can be piled on and on...

So I left the dealer without asking for a test drive because what I've seen are bad enough to be the deal breaker. I just don't get it why a minivan costs this much but Toyota still decided to cut cost on the very important interior material fit and finish. The customers are not ignorant at least I am not. I suggest you'll check the van and see for yourself, this latest Sienna's interior reminds me the Dodge Caravan in the 90s'...

RoyAlder

A score of 80 is still pretty good. But I guess this proves that this Sienna is not better than the one that it replaces.

What I really do not like as former Sienna owner is that the powertrain never got updated