Toyota Sienna score in Consumer Reports "plunges", no longer top-rated
08-03-10, 08:07 PM
#1
Toyota Sienna score in Consumer Reports "plunges", no longer top-rated
Toyota Sienna score in Consumer Reports plunges, no longer top-rated
It's generally accepted that every new iteration of any vehicle is somehow better than its predecessor. And that's true of the 2011 Toyota Sienna minivan, which is festooned with more goodies (like a 16.4-inch widescreen monitor for rear-seat passengers) and a sportier flair (complete with a sporty SE trim) than the previous generation Sienna. The only question that remains, then, is this: Do those improvements automatically equal a better vehicle?
According to Consumer Reports, the answer is no. And surprisingly, it's not even close, with the new Sienna's overall test score of 80 paling in comparison to the 2010's overall score of 94. The main culprits cited by CR for the plummeting score are poor fit and finish and excessive interior noise – bad enough that CR claims it's not possible to have a proper conversation between front and rear passengers.
So, if not the Toyota Sienna – which held the honor for three straight years – what is CR's top-rated minivan? The six-year-old Honda Odyssey. For what it's worth, there's a new Odyssey coming out next year, but as we've seen from the Sienna, a new model doesn't necessarily equal one that tests better at the influential magazine. It's also worth noting that the new Sienna's overall score is roughly on par with that of the Kia Sedona, which has been available in its current configuration since 2006.
Consumer Reports also tested other people movers, such as the micro-minivan Mazda5 and the large box-on-wheels crossover Ford Flex. Both vehicles got rather positive reviews, and testers found that they may be looked at as realistic replacements for the tried-and-true minivan paradigm of the Toyota Sienna. Check out the official press release after the break.
CONSUMER REPORTS: MAZDA5 GETS HIGHEST SCORE AMONG A DIVERSE GROUP OF FAMILY MOVERS
Ford Flex Eco Boost posts "Excellent" score, Toyota Sienna rates "Very Good"
YONKERS, NY - The Mazda5 microvan posted an "Excellent" score in Consumer Reports' ratings, as part of a test in the September issue that featured three different types of family movers. Although smaller than a standard minivan, it is ideal for families on a budget.
"The Madza5 hits a sweet spot for families on a budget," said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' Auto Test Center in East Haddam, Connecticut. "It provides most of the versatility and convenience of a minivan along with stingier fuel economy, more agile handling and a lower price."
Also included was the Ford Flex EcoBoost three-row SUV and the redesigned Toyota Sienna minivan which posted "Excellent" and "Very Good" test scores, respectively. Prices for the vehicles in this test group ranged from $23,805 for the Mazda5 to $46,720 for the Flex.
The Mazda5 previously earned a Top Pick designation in CR's Annual Auto Issue in the Family Hauler category.It is versatile and relatively roomy, despite its modest size. It has sliding rear doors, a small third-row seat, and seating for up to six. Consumer Reports opted to retest the '5 after it was upgraded for 2010, with electronic stability control.
While both the front-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive versions of the Toyota Sienna posted "Very Good" test scores and it is a very good vehicle, it doesn't measure up to the previous model, which had been CR's top rated minivan for three years. It is still roomy and efficient with a smooth ride, but a drop in interior fit and finish and quietness, among other things, contributed to an overall drop in score. It now ranks below the top-rated Honda Odyssey and roughly on par with the Kia Sedona.
This is the second version of the Flex tested by Consumer Reports. This version is equipped with Ford's EcoBoost engine which is turbocharged with direct-fuel-injection technology to optimize performance and fuel economy. The improvement boosted this version of the Flex to the top of the midsized three-row SUV category, below only the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, which was rated an"Excellent" road test score.
A new model, the Honda Accord Crosstour crossover model was also tested for this issue and posted a "Very Good" score. Like the Acura ZDX and BMW X6, the more affordable Accord Crosstour has a tall stance and all-wheel drive, but the coupe-ish design hurts visibility, rear access, and cargo space.
While the Mazda5 is Recommended, the Toyota Sienna and the Flex EcoBoost are too new for Consumer Reports to have reliability data. CR only Recommends vehicles that have performed well in its tests, have at least average predicted reliability based on CR's Annual Auto Survey of its more than seven million print and Web subscribers, and performed at least adequately if crash-tested or included in a government rollover test.
Full tests and ratings for all five vehicles appear in the September issue of Consumer Reports, which goes on sale August 3. The reports are also available to subscribers of www.ConsumerReports.org. Updated daily, ConsumerReports.org is the go-to site for the latest auto reviews, product news, blogs on breaking news and car buying information.
The Mazda5 is more agile and fun to drive than larger minivans. It rides well, with good isolation over bumps. The Mazda5 Grand Touring ($23,805 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 153-hp, 2.3-liter four-cylinder engine that performs adequately and gets 24 mpg overall in CR's own fuel economy tests. The five-speed automatic transmission shifts smoothly. Braking is Very Good. The rear 50/50-split rear seatbacks fold easily into the floor when they're not needed.
The redesigned Sienna used to compete head-to-head with the Honda Odyssey; now its test score is similar to the Kia Sedona, which also posted a "Very Good" test score. It has a very comfortable ride, a spacious and versatile interior, a smooth powertrain and good fuel economy. The Toyota Sienna XLE ($35,810 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 266-hp, 3.5-liter V6 engine that delivers lively performance and gets 20 mpg overall, the best of any minivan CR tested. The six-speed automatic transmission is responsive and smooth. Braking is Very Good. The split third-row bench folds easily to create a large cargo area.
The Ford Flex's boxy styling may strike you as either cool or homely, depending on your tastes. But CR's engineers found the Flex to be a spacious and extremely practical vehicle. It's quiet, rides comfortably and has limo-like room in the second row. The Ford Flex Limited EcoBoost ($46,720 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 355-hp, 3.5-liter turbo V6 engine that is powerful and gets 17 mpg overall, the same as the non-turbo Flex. Braking is Very Good. The six-speed automatic transmission shifts smoothly. Folding the seats is an easy task that opens up a large cargo area.
Whether you think of the Honda Crosstour as a raised hatchback or a crossover, it's designed for those who want an SUV's versatility, high seating position, and all-wheel drive without the bulky size or high fuel costs. But when pushed to its handling limits, it behaves more like a ponderous SUV. The Crosstour is a comfortable, quiet vehicle, with a smooth, responsive powertrain. The Honda Crosstour EX-L ($34,730 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 271-hp, 3.5-liter V6 engine that gets 20 mpg overall. The five-speed transmission shifts smoothly. Braking is Very Good. The 60/40-split rear seats fold down in sections, but maximum cargo volume is modest.
With more than 7 million print and online subscribers, Consumer Reports is one of the most trusted sources for information and advice on consumer products and services. It conducts the most comprehensive auto-test program of any U.S. publication or Web site and owns and operates a 327-acre Auto Test Center in Connecticut. The organization's auto experts have decades of experience in driving, testing, and reporting on cars. To subscribe, consumers can call 1-800-234-1645 or visit www.ConsumerReports.org.
Ford Flex Eco Boost posts "Excellent" score, Toyota Sienna rates "Very Good"
YONKERS, NY - The Mazda5 microvan posted an "Excellent" score in Consumer Reports' ratings, as part of a test in the September issue that featured three different types of family movers. Although smaller than a standard minivan, it is ideal for families on a budget.
"The Madza5 hits a sweet spot for families on a budget," said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' Auto Test Center in East Haddam, Connecticut. "It provides most of the versatility and convenience of a minivan along with stingier fuel economy, more agile handling and a lower price."
Also included was the Ford Flex EcoBoost three-row SUV and the redesigned Toyota Sienna minivan which posted "Excellent" and "Very Good" test scores, respectively. Prices for the vehicles in this test group ranged from $23,805 for the Mazda5 to $46,720 for the Flex.
The Mazda5 previously earned a Top Pick designation in CR's Annual Auto Issue in the Family Hauler category.It is versatile and relatively roomy, despite its modest size. It has sliding rear doors, a small third-row seat, and seating for up to six. Consumer Reports opted to retest the '5 after it was upgraded for 2010, with electronic stability control.
While both the front-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive versions of the Toyota Sienna posted "Very Good" test scores and it is a very good vehicle, it doesn't measure up to the previous model, which had been CR's top rated minivan for three years. It is still roomy and efficient with a smooth ride, but a drop in interior fit and finish and quietness, among other things, contributed to an overall drop in score. It now ranks below the top-rated Honda Odyssey and roughly on par with the Kia Sedona.
This is the second version of the Flex tested by Consumer Reports. This version is equipped with Ford's EcoBoost engine which is turbocharged with direct-fuel-injection technology to optimize performance and fuel economy. The improvement boosted this version of the Flex to the top of the midsized three-row SUV category, below only the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, which was rated an"Excellent" road test score.
A new model, the Honda Accord Crosstour crossover model was also tested for this issue and posted a "Very Good" score. Like the Acura ZDX and BMW X6, the more affordable Accord Crosstour has a tall stance and all-wheel drive, but the coupe-ish design hurts visibility, rear access, and cargo space.
While the Mazda5 is Recommended, the Toyota Sienna and the Flex EcoBoost are too new for Consumer Reports to have reliability data. CR only Recommends vehicles that have performed well in its tests, have at least average predicted reliability based on CR's Annual Auto Survey of its more than seven million print and Web subscribers, and performed at least adequately if crash-tested or included in a government rollover test.
Full tests and ratings for all five vehicles appear in the September issue of Consumer Reports, which goes on sale August 3. The reports are also available to subscribers of www.ConsumerReports.org. Updated daily, ConsumerReports.org is the go-to site for the latest auto reviews, product news, blogs on breaking news and car buying information.
The Mazda5 is more agile and fun to drive than larger minivans. It rides well, with good isolation over bumps. The Mazda5 Grand Touring ($23,805 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 153-hp, 2.3-liter four-cylinder engine that performs adequately and gets 24 mpg overall in CR's own fuel economy tests. The five-speed automatic transmission shifts smoothly. Braking is Very Good. The rear 50/50-split rear seatbacks fold easily into the floor when they're not needed.
The redesigned Sienna used to compete head-to-head with the Honda Odyssey; now its test score is similar to the Kia Sedona, which also posted a "Very Good" test score. It has a very comfortable ride, a spacious and versatile interior, a smooth powertrain and good fuel economy. The Toyota Sienna XLE ($35,810 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 266-hp, 3.5-liter V6 engine that delivers lively performance and gets 20 mpg overall, the best of any minivan CR tested. The six-speed automatic transmission is responsive and smooth. Braking is Very Good. The split third-row bench folds easily to create a large cargo area.
The Ford Flex's boxy styling may strike you as either cool or homely, depending on your tastes. But CR's engineers found the Flex to be a spacious and extremely practical vehicle. It's quiet, rides comfortably and has limo-like room in the second row. The Ford Flex Limited EcoBoost ($46,720 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 355-hp, 3.5-liter turbo V6 engine that is powerful and gets 17 mpg overall, the same as the non-turbo Flex. Braking is Very Good. The six-speed automatic transmission shifts smoothly. Folding the seats is an easy task that opens up a large cargo area.
Whether you think of the Honda Crosstour as a raised hatchback or a crossover, it's designed for those who want an SUV's versatility, high seating position, and all-wheel drive without the bulky size or high fuel costs. But when pushed to its handling limits, it behaves more like a ponderous SUV. The Crosstour is a comfortable, quiet vehicle, with a smooth, responsive powertrain. The Honda Crosstour EX-L ($34,730 MSRP as tested), is powered by a 271-hp, 3.5-liter V6 engine that gets 20 mpg overall. The five-speed transmission shifts smoothly. Braking is Very Good. The 60/40-split rear seats fold down in sections, but maximum cargo volume is modest.
With more than 7 million print and online subscribers, Consumer Reports is one of the most trusted sources for information and advice on consumer products and services. It conducts the most comprehensive auto-test program of any U.S. publication or Web site and owns and operates a 327-acre Auto Test Center in Connecticut. The organization's auto experts have decades of experience in driving, testing, and reporting on cars. To subscribe, consumers can call 1-800-234-1645 or visit www.ConsumerReports.org.
08-03-10, 08:32 PM
#3
While I doubt the stories that CR is being "paid off" by Toyota or its rivals, I do wonder about whether they have it in for the company in recent years. Sure, some of it is due to the company's own issues, but I've noticed an increasingly critical tone in their writeups, blogs, and videos that was not there before. Maybe it's a new crop of writers, but they seem to want to take any possible gripe and turn it into an issue. For example, there is a complaint that the beeping when the HS, others are in Reverse is annoying. What's left unmentioned is that a) it's a safety feature, and b) it can be turned off (IIRC). Also, when Remote Touch has been praised by everyone from C&D to Autoblog and others, CR thinks it's too difficult and neglects to mention much about rival **** systems (maybe they think the criticisms are already there for MMI/etc--although they did have some of it for iDrive back then). They've also ratched up the sporty/driver's car terminology, which can be very subjective and a far cry from the facts, please, impartial reasoning of old.
Then there's the whole way they carried about the GX 460 "don't buy" business, using highly alarmist methods to get on all the major news shows, and running web ads off the GX publicity. Then also refusing to provide Toyota with any technical info to fix the GX issue (they did figure it out eventually on their own). No worries then about those individuals who might have been hurt by their "safety risk" alert in the meantime.
Now, as for the Sienna, maybe their critiques are justified. However, I have suspicions that their 'cabin noise so loud you can't hear back seat' is another one of their recent hyperboles. That plus any new formulations in their testing also will take getting used to.
Then there's the whole way they carried about the GX 460 "don't buy" business, using highly alarmist methods to get on all the major news shows, and running web ads off the GX publicity. Then also refusing to provide Toyota with any technical info to fix the GX issue (they did figure it out eventually on their own). No worries then about those individuals who might have been hurt by their "safety risk" alert in the meantime.
Now, as for the Sienna, maybe their critiques are justified. However, I have suspicions that their 'cabin noise so loud you can't hear back seat' is another one of their recent hyperboles. That plus any new formulations in their testing also will take getting used to.
08-03-10, 08:53 PM
#5
I've always wondered if the "interior sound" ratings are actually measured for the decibels inside any vehicles, or they are merely making a statement about how they "feel" about it. I mean, just get the actual sound level, compare with comparable vehicles and see where it stands. I want objectivity, not subjectivity and "feelings" about things.
And things like "oh, it was difficult to figure out..." can be very dependent on person too. Is the reviewer tech savvy, or are they not even able to work a digital microwave effectively?
And things like "oh, it was difficult to figure out..." can be very dependent on person too. Is the reviewer tech savvy, or are they not even able to work a digital microwave effectively?
08-03-10, 08:54 PM
#6
ouch, just ouch... this doesn't look too good on toyota...
of course, all reviews, no matter by what authorities, are going to be reviews with certain degrees of biases in it. but at the same time, they drive to a lot of publicity and awareness. i am not surprised if some writers are affected by the recent "trend" of how things are going.
in the end, let's just hope this is good alarm for toyota, one way or another
of course, all reviews, no matter by what authorities, are going to be reviews with certain degrees of biases in it. but at the same time, they drive to a lot of publicity and awareness. i am not surprised if some writers are affected by the recent "trend" of how things are going.
in the end, let's just hope this is good alarm for toyota, one way or another
08-03-10, 10:41 PM
#7
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Who wrote this article for Autoblog? Since when does a score of 80 "pale" compared to a score of 94?
I agree completely. I sense a lot of envy and jealousy has built up amongst some of these new writers, and combined with Toyota's troubles in the recent while it's all come together to this point where seemingly every writer has it in for Toyota.
Compare this to Honda, where many of their new vehicles have some problems, but writers continue to overlook them or gloss over them. Even now, very few articles are being written on Honda's problems, and Honda right now does have a lot of problems.
While I doubt the stories that CR is being "paid off" by Toyota or its rivals, I do wonder about whether they have it in for the company in recent years. Sure, some of it is due to the company's own issues, but I've noticed an increasingly critical tone in their writeups, blogs, and videos that was not there before. Maybe it's a new crop of writers, but they seem to want to take any possible gripe and turn it into an issue. For example, there is a complaint that the beeping when the HS, others are in Reverse is annoying. What's left unmentioned is that a) it's a safety feature, and b) it can be turned off (IIRC). Also, when Remote Touch has been praised by everyone from C&D to Autoblog and others, CR thinks it's too difficult and neglects to mention much about rival **** systems (maybe they think the criticisms are already there for MMI/etc--although they did have some of it for iDrive back then). They've also ratched up the sporty/driver's car terminology, which can be very subjective and a far cry from the facts, please, impartial reasoning of old.
Then there's the whole way they carried about the GX 460 "don't buy" business, using highly alarmist methods to get on all the major news shows, and running web ads off the GX publicity. Then also refusing to provide Toyota with any technical info to fix the GX issue (they did figure it out eventually on their own). No worries then about those individuals who might have been hurt by their "safety risk" alert in the meantime.
Now, as for the Sienna, maybe their critiques are justified. However, I have suspicions that their 'cabin noise so loud you can't hear back seat' is another one of their recent hyperboles. That plus any new formulations in their testing also will take getting used to.
Then there's the whole way they carried about the GX 460 "don't buy" business, using highly alarmist methods to get on all the major news shows, and running web ads off the GX publicity. Then also refusing to provide Toyota with any technical info to fix the GX issue (they did figure it out eventually on their own). No worries then about those individuals who might have been hurt by their "safety risk" alert in the meantime.
Now, as for the Sienna, maybe their critiques are justified. However, I have suspicions that their 'cabin noise so loud you can't hear back seat' is another one of their recent hyperboles. That plus any new formulations in their testing also will take getting used to.
Compare this to Honda, where many of their new vehicles have some problems, but writers continue to overlook them or gloss over them. Even now, very few articles are being written on Honda's problems, and Honda right now does have a lot of problems.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 08-03-10 at 10:45 PM.
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08-03-10, 10:51 PM
#8
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Then there's the whole way they carried about the GX 460 "don't buy" business, using highly alarmist methods to get on all the major news shows, and running web ads off the GX publicity. Then also refusing to provide Toyota with any technical info to fix the GX issue (they did figure it out eventually on their own). No worries then about those individuals who might have been hurt by their "safety risk" alert in the meantime.
Now the Sienna, build a quality vehicle, does not break or leave you stranded and people will still nit pick over small crap
08-04-10, 12:02 AM
#9
The GX460 thing was hilarious, the 460 was fine, your not suppose to drive around corners and turns with your foot to the floor, your essentially driving with the 2 foot method with these vehicles.
Now the Sienna, build a quality vehicle, does not break or leave you stranded and people will still nit pick over small crap
Now the Sienna, build a quality vehicle, does not break or leave you stranded and people will still nit pick over small crap
of course you are not supposed to, but "in the case of" includes accident. and evidently with the software fix, the car works better in that scenario. though i agree the thing was a bit blown out of proportion, i won't disregard it as "not a problem"me personally, looking at the all new sienna, i actually think it's a move in the right direction for toyota, and i have a feeling they are trying to correct the course back on track again. don't think they are there yet, but it's a work in progress
08-04-10, 12:07 AM
#10
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I guess, but if you look at it from the point of view of letter grades, an 80 would be an A- while a 94 would be an A+, so not a big difference between the two .
Yes this is in a way a good alarm for Toyota, but I don't think they need any more alarms after what's happened to them over the past year or so. The alarm bells started sounding at Toyota years ago. Toyota of course is a huge company, so change takes time. Appointing Akio Toyoda as president was the first big step in revamping the company.
.Yes this is in a way a good alarm for Toyota, but I don't think they need any more alarms after what's happened to them over the past year or so. The alarm bells started sounding at Toyota years ago. Toyota of course is a huge company, so change takes time. Appointing Akio Toyoda as president was the first big step in revamping the company.
08-04-10, 12:51 AM
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08-04-10, 04:54 AM
#13
While I doubt the stories that CR is being "paid off" by Toyota or its rivals, I do wonder about whether they have it in for the company in recent years. Sure, some of it is due to the company's own issues, but I've noticed an increasingly critical tone in their writeups, blogs, and videos that was not there before. Maybe it's a new crop of writers, but they seem to want to take any possible gripe and turn it into an issue. For example, there is a complaint that the beeping when the HS, others are in Reverse is annoying. What's left unmentioned is that a) it's a safety feature, and b) it can be turned off (IIRC). Also, when Remote Touch has been praised by everyone from C&D to Autoblog and others, CR thinks it's too difficult and neglects to mention much about rival **** systems (maybe they think the criticisms are already there for MMI/etc--although they did have some of it for iDrive back then). They've also ratched up the sporty/driver's car terminology, which can be very subjective and a far cry from the facts, please, impartial reasoning of old.
Then there's the whole way they carried about the GX 460 "don't buy" business, using highly alarmist methods to get on all the major news shows, and running web ads off the GX publicity. Then also refusing to provide Toyota with any technical info to fix the GX issue (they did figure it out eventually on their own). No worries then about those individuals who might have been hurt by their "safety risk" alert in the meantime.
Now, as for the Sienna, maybe their critiques are justified. However, I have suspicions that their 'cabin noise so loud you can't hear back seat' is another one of their recent hyperboles. That plus any new formulations in their testing also will take getting used to.
Then there's the whole way they carried about the GX 460 "don't buy" business, using highly alarmist methods to get on all the major news shows, and running web ads off the GX publicity. Then also refusing to provide Toyota with any technical info to fix the GX issue (they did figure it out eventually on their own). No worries then about those individuals who might have been hurt by their "safety risk" alert in the meantime.
Now, as for the Sienna, maybe their critiques are justified. However, I have suspicions that their 'cabin noise so loud you can't hear back seat' is another one of their recent hyperboles. That plus any new formulations in their testing also will take getting used to.
Recalls and bad press has put CR in a situation where they're going along with the media hype to sell their magazine.
08-04-10, 05:49 AM
#15
If you read the domestic automotive forums, there has been a lot of complaining and discounting of Consumer Reports auto evaluations for years. The basic sentiments are:
- CR is OK for evaluating a fridge, but not a car
- CR gives a free pass to Toyota and Honda products, assuming everything is fine and reliable
- CR assumes anything from GM, Ford, or Chrysler will have lousy reliability regardless of what is reported by owners in CR's own annual quality survey. There have been many instances of charts for domestic cars and trucks with red (good) circles of owner reported reliability and black (bad) circles of CR editor's expected reliability for the same models.
I noticed that CR recently updated their reporting and now specifies a percentage above or below normal expected reliability standards for each vehicle. Just like other publications have editorial biases, I think CR management is stressing Toyota problems to counter the real or perceived biases in the past.
- CR is OK for evaluating a fridge, but not a car
- CR gives a free pass to Toyota and Honda products, assuming everything is fine and reliable
- CR assumes anything from GM, Ford, or Chrysler will have lousy reliability regardless of what is reported by owners in CR's own annual quality survey. There have been many instances of charts for domestic cars and trucks with red (good) circles of owner reported reliability and black (bad) circles of CR editor's expected reliability for the same models.
I noticed that CR recently updated their reporting and now specifies a percentage above or below normal expected reliability standards for each vehicle. Just like other publications have editorial biases, I think CR management is stressing Toyota problems to counter the real or perceived biases in the past.