Another life gone to waste because of speeding
08-13-10, 12:20 PM
#46
Long physics lesson and yet you still miss the point.
Kid makes mistake (speeds)
Kid gets caught (cop)
Kid stops and accepts responsibility (ticket/arrest/loss of license)
If the above had happened, we wouldn't be talking about this story. But we don't know the reason (unless they reveal who they suspect he may have been talking to on the phone during chase/crash) why this kid did what he did. BASED ON HIS ACTION of running from a cop at 130mph for over a full minute this kid was destined to die one way or another no matter what he was driving. It's not about the "g-force of the longitudal axis of a 8 cylinder versus 4 cylinder". If this kid was driving a Civic, he would have pushed it to the max until either the exact same result happened, the cop caught him or the Civic broke down. The fact that a Civic crashing into a stationary semi at 90 mph is marginally safer than a Lexus hitting the same object at 130 is IRRELEVANT.
Yes we've all driven stupidly at one point or another but I can't remember the last "I out the Po-Po" thread so let's not act like running from the police on a public highway is some rite of teenagism we've all been through. Most of us have been taught that there is a certain when you've just been caught and now you have to deal with it. Those who haven't end up like this kid.
Kid makes mistake (speeds)
Kid gets caught (cop)
Kid stops and accepts responsibility (ticket/arrest/loss of license)
If the above had happened, we wouldn't be talking about this story. But we don't know the reason (unless they reveal who they suspect he may have been talking to on the phone during chase/crash) why this kid did what he did. BASED ON HIS ACTION of running from a cop at 130mph for over a full minute this kid was destined to die one way or another no matter what he was driving. It's not about the "g-force of the longitudal axis of a 8 cylinder versus 4 cylinder". If this kid was driving a Civic, he would have pushed it to the max until either the exact same result happened, the cop caught him or the Civic broke down. The fact that a Civic crashing into a stationary semi at 90 mph is marginally safer than a Lexus hitting the same object at 130 is IRRELEVANT.
Yes we've all driven stupidly at one point or another but I can't remember the last "I out the Po-Po" thread so let's not act like running from the police on a public highway is some rite of teenagism we've all been through. Most of us have been taught that there is a certain when you've just been caught and now you have to deal with it. Those who haven't end up like this kid.
The entire point of my post is that 16 year olds have very different (underdeveloped) brain physiology that tends to belie the possibility for them to "accept responsibility" and learn from their mistakes.
Here's an analogy -
You're saying it's O.K. to give the 2 year old the steak knife. If he cuts or scratches himself, he'll supposedly learn to be more responsible before he accidentally cuts himself fatally.
I'm saying the kid is 2 years old and isn't mentally mature enough to fully grasp concepts of responsibility - let's start him out with plastic silverware.
To suggest that there's no difference between the two, or that the difference between the steak knife and plastic silverware is irrelevant - you're being willfully ignorant.
Either you didn't grasp the part about a 90 MPH crash being twice as safe (from an energy standpoint) as a > 130 MPH crash, a 16 year old having an underdeveloped PFC and therefore being relatively more incapable of acting in the same vein of a responsible adult (i.e. not going 130 MPH, stopping when the cops caught him), or both.
A car crashing at 90 MPH is just "marginally" safer than a car crashing at > 130 MPH? I'm beginning to think you didn't even read the physics portion of my post.
Last edited by syzygy; 08-13-10 at 12:26 PM.
08-13-10, 12:43 PM
#47
I think you're viewing the 16 year old as either he's 8 or mentally ill. At 15, you should have some sense of "right and wrong" and the fact that it's wrong to run from the cops. Sure, he might not fully understand "responsibility" and to just "take it like a man and get the ticket or face the consequences" but kids at that age SHOULD have common sense already.
Hell at 16, I didn't like the police, but I knew it was futile trying to run from them and you're only digging yourself in a bigger hole by trying.
Also, a Civic is also a lighter/dinkier car, not sure how safe it'd be to be hitting the same object even at 90 MPH.
Hell at 16, I didn't like the police, but I knew it was futile trying to run from them and you're only digging yourself in a bigger hole by trying.
Also, a Civic is also a lighter/dinkier car, not sure how safe it'd be to be hitting the same object even at 90 MPH.
08-13-10, 01:24 PM
#48
I think you're viewing the 16 year old as either he's 8 or mentally ill. At 15, you should have some sense of "right and wrong" and the fact that it's wrong to run from the cops. Sure, he might not fully understand "responsibility" and to just "take it like a man and get the ticket or face the consequences" but kids at that age SHOULD have common sense already.
Hell at 16, I didn't like the police, but I knew it was futile trying to run from them and you're only digging yourself in a bigger hole by trying.
Also, a Civic is also a lighter/dinkier car, not sure how safe it'd be to be hitting the same object even at 90 MPH.
Hell at 16, I didn't like the police, but I knew it was futile trying to run from them and you're only digging yourself in a bigger hole by trying.
Also, a Civic is also a lighter/dinkier car, not sure how safe it'd be to be hitting the same object even at 90 MPH.
Perhaps this link might be of use for further information -
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...cddkS6lh5-Dv2g
Let me know if you guys have trouble opening the link, it should lead to an article titled "Adolescent brain development - A critical factor in juvenile justice reform"
Edit: Here's sort of the abstract of the above paper, just in case you guys can't open it -
"Kids are not adults - and shouldn't be treated as such. Yet each year, nearly 250,000 youth are prosecuted, sentenced and incarcerated as adults. Recent advances in neuroscientific research, however, have confirmed that young people's brains are not fully developed until they reach their early twenties. As a result, children lack the capacity for adult level reasoning or a full realization of the consequences of their actions. This emerging research establishes a medical basis for applying a different standard of culpability to children than to adults"
Those last two sentences pretty much hit the nail on the head with regards to the point I'm trying to make here.
And, another key quote -
"The adolescent mind works differently than ours...Their brains are physiologically underdeveloped in the areas that control impulses, foresee consequences and temper emotions...This insight emerges from sophisticated and noninvasive brain imaging techniques"
Last edited by syzygy; 08-13-10 at 01:29 PM.
08-13-10, 01:44 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
remember, he wasn't wearing a seat belt.
130 to 0 in a split second = ejected
on the other hand, he might have been depressed and suicidal.
In that case, you can't really call him stupid.
but we'll never know....
130 to 0 in a split second = ejected
on the other hand, he might have been depressed and suicidal.
In that case, you can't really call him stupid.
but we'll never know....
08-13-10, 01:53 PM
#50
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16 year old drives car way too fast.
Police pursue said 16 year old.
16 year old attempts to flee.
16 year old loses control of car, crashes and is killed.
This is what really matters here.
Not how good of a kid he was. He may have truly been a saint, coached his peers on the field, and fed the homeless on the weekend. He may also have put up a good front, and bullied the mentally challenged kids behind closed doors. His life still ended.
So he was driving a GS. So what. It may have been in the family since it was new, paid off, and cheaper than buying him a beater. Like many parents, they may have reasoned that because it was bigger, had more crumple zones and air bags, that it was in fact safer than a Yaris that would be crushed in an impact with a bicycle. Most people believe that a bigger car is safer, and therefore put their kids in SUV's in the name of safety. Doesn't matter. The kid is still dead.
Most kids make bad decisions of some sort, at that age. Adrenaline, especially, often makes it easy to not choose your actions wisely. All of us here were at least lucky enough to survive our bad decisions, and (hopefully) learn from them. This kid was not so lucky.
You can't blame the parents, the car, or even the speed. The blame lies solely on the AGE of the kid. At 16, kids will attempt to jump a skateboard over a pit of snakes, play with their dad's loaded 357, have unprotected sex, or yes, drive whatever car they have as fast as possible. If you don't believe me, look back at your own youth, and I bet you'll find something you did that should have hurt you much, much more than it did. I'm not saying he didn't act stupid, but we all have. However, he paid the ultimate penalty.
If it was your child, or someone you knew personally, many of you would change your opinions on his death...
Police pursue said 16 year old.
16 year old attempts to flee.
16 year old loses control of car, crashes and is killed.
This is what really matters here.
Not how good of a kid he was. He may have truly been a saint, coached his peers on the field, and fed the homeless on the weekend. He may also have put up a good front, and bullied the mentally challenged kids behind closed doors. His life still ended.
So he was driving a GS. So what. It may have been in the family since it was new, paid off, and cheaper than buying him a beater. Like many parents, they may have reasoned that because it was bigger, had more crumple zones and air bags, that it was in fact safer than a Yaris that would be crushed in an impact with a bicycle. Most people believe that a bigger car is safer, and therefore put their kids in SUV's in the name of safety. Doesn't matter. The kid is still dead.
Most kids make bad decisions of some sort, at that age. Adrenaline, especially, often makes it easy to not choose your actions wisely. All of us here were at least lucky enough to survive our bad decisions, and (hopefully) learn from them. This kid was not so lucky.
You can't blame the parents, the car, or even the speed. The blame lies solely on the AGE of the kid. At 16, kids will attempt to jump a skateboard over a pit of snakes, play with their dad's loaded 357, have unprotected sex, or yes, drive whatever car they have as fast as possible. If you don't believe me, look back at your own youth, and I bet you'll find something you did that should have hurt you much, much more than it did. I'm not saying he didn't act stupid, but we all have. However, he paid the ultimate penalty.
If it was your child, or someone you knew personally, many of you would change your opinions on his death...
08-13-10, 02:17 PM
#52
Lexus Test Driver
Long physics lesson and yet you still miss the point.
Kid makes mistake (speeds)
Kid gets caught (cop)
Kid stops and accepts responsibility (ticket/arrest/loss of license)
If the above had happened, we wouldn't be talking about this story. But we don't know the reason (unless they reveal who they suspect he may have been talking to on the phone during chase/crash) why this kid did what he did. BASED ON HIS ACTION of running from a cop at 130mph for over a full minute this kid was destined to die one way or another no matter what he was driving. It's not about the "g-force of the longitudal axis of a 8 cylinder versus 4 cylinder". If this kid was driving a Civic, he would have pushed it to the max until either the exact same result happened, the cop caught him or the Civic broke down. The fact that a Civic crashing into a stationary semi at 90 mph is marginally safer than a Lexus hitting the same object at 130 is IRRELEVANT.
Yes we've all driven stupidly at one point or another but I can't remember the last "I out the Po-Po" thread so let's not act like running from the police on a public highway is some rite of teenagism we've all been through. Most of us have been taught that there is a certain when you've just been caught and now you have to deal with it. Those who haven't end up like this kid.
Kid makes mistake (speeds)
Kid gets caught (cop)
Kid stops and accepts responsibility (ticket/arrest/loss of license)
If the above had happened, we wouldn't be talking about this story. But we don't know the reason (unless they reveal who they suspect he may have been talking to on the phone during chase/crash) why this kid did what he did. BASED ON HIS ACTION of running from a cop at 130mph for over a full minute this kid was destined to die one way or another no matter what he was driving. It's not about the "g-force of the longitudal axis of a 8 cylinder versus 4 cylinder". If this kid was driving a Civic, he would have pushed it to the max until either the exact same result happened, the cop caught him or the Civic broke down. The fact that a Civic crashing into a stationary semi at 90 mph is marginally safer than a Lexus hitting the same object at 130 is IRRELEVANT.
Yes we've all driven stupidly at one point or another but I can't remember the last "I out the Po-Po" thread so let's not act like running from the police on a public highway is some rite of teenagism we've all been through. Most of us have been taught that there is a certain when you've just been caught and now you have to deal with it. Those who haven't end up like this kid.
08-13-10, 03:35 PM
#53
Lead Lap
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Part of being a parent is knowing how to protect your child. Giving freedom helps teach decision-making and sometimes learning a lesson or two. But there are times when a parent does have it within their means to help REDUCE the odds that a child will put himself in greater harm. One of those ways, and this is basic common sense, is to not supply your child with a tool that could hurt him more. A 120 horsepower Corolla decreases these opportunities. A 300 hp Lexus with sound-deadening increases these opportunities. So it comes down to how much do you want to protect your child? How much do you want him to learn his lessons the hard way and on his own? Do you want his lesson to be learned on the highway? In the classroom? On the job? At the park? Your answers may vary. Personally, I would not want my son to learn his lesson on the highway, where it can easily lead to castastrophic and deadly results.
It's funny, I was sitting in our lake today and the neighbor boys were throwing rocks on to the roof of the dock belonging to another neighbor. Mom and dad sat there and watched them the whole time. Parents do not parent is what I got from this.
08-13-10, 03:46 PM
#54
Lexus Champion
When I have my kids, I can assure you I'll be making them drive a Prius or a 240D.
Last edited by nthach; 08-13-10 at 03:49 PM.
08-13-10, 04:10 PM
#55
Part of being a parent is knowing how to protect your child. Giving freedom helps teach decision-making and sometimes learning a lesson or two. But there are times when a parent does have it within their means to help REDUCE the odds that a child will put himself in greater harm. One of those ways, and this is basic common sense, is to not supply your child with a tool that could hurt him more. A 120 horsepower Corolla decreases these opportunities. A 300 hp Lexus with sound-deadening increases these opportunities. So it comes down to how much do you want to protect your child? How much do you want him to learn his lessons the hard way and on his own? Do you want his lesson to be learned on the highway? In the classroom? On the job? At the park? Your answers may vary. Personally, I would not want my son to learn his lesson on the highway, where it can easily lead to castastrophic and deadly results.
. This is the conclusion I would hope most parents will come to No - you get them a Prius, Insight, Mercedes 240D or a ex-rental Ford Taurus(with the Vulcan V6)/Chevy Malibu/Chrysler Sebring. Even better would be the woefully underpowered 1993-2002 Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager or a Chrysler minivan with the Neon I4 or the Mitsu V6.
When I have my kids, I can assure you I'll be making them drive a Prius or a 240D.
When I have my kids, I can assure you I'll be making them drive a Prius or a 240D.
08-17-10, 01:47 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
I don't think its speed that killed him, it was a mix of factors. Am I reading this wrong but was he ELUDING police? So its not speed, it wasn't just driving 130MPH straight and he died from speeding.
16 years old, fast car, inexperience, eluding police is a mix for a sad ending.
16 years old, fast car, inexperience, eluding police is a mix for a sad ending.
Simple categorization of this event as "speeding" will do nothing to provide useful information on preventing it from happening again. Or in other words enforcement (10mph+) of artificially low speed limits will do nothing to prevent it, even if revenue increases.
08-17-10, 02:32 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
I feel for the parents but what kind of moron gets his kid a High powered luxury sedan at 16? My first car had 64hp and a 4 speed manual. There was no way I could even get it over 75-80 let alone 120 mph. I guess these teens can kill themselves in anything but I think the power in the car mixed with teen hormones made the little guy think he could out run a police cruiser
08-20-10, 07:15 AM
#58
...............
Some of your guys make some douche bag remarks in this thread,
c'mon, he deserved to die just cause he was speeding? are you kidding me?
ALL of us have broken the speed limit, and if you say you haven't well your a liar and afraid to man up to it. I bet those of you passing such quick judgment on the guy are the worst offenders too.
Wait till that happens (god forbid) to one your your friends or someone in your family, you'll be singing a different tune.
Yes, he acted stupidly and made a mistake, but he paid the highest price for it with his LIFE, aint no commin' back from that.
c'mon, he deserved to die just cause he was speeding? are you kidding me?
ALL of us have broken the speed limit, and if you say you haven't well your a liar and afraid to man up to it. I bet those of you passing such quick judgment on the guy are the worst offenders too.
Wait till that happens (god forbid) to one your your friends or someone in your family, you'll be singing a different tune.
Yes, he acted stupidly and made a mistake, but he paid the highest price for it with his LIFE, aint no commin' back from that.
08-20-10, 03:21 PM
#60
I may be the only one who some what sticks up for this kid, but at 16, everyone here drove like an idiot. I am only 17 and i admit, i do drive faster then i should.i did slow down after my speeding ticket going 87 which shows it takes something to change most young kids driving habits, parents saying things to you very rarely prevent kids from speeding or doing stupid stuff, no matter what anyone says. Secondly just because he was out late, doesn't mean he was up to no good. During the summer (now) i regularly come home at 12-2 am and am not out doing anything illegal or "sketchy". He ran from the police because he thought he could get away, when your 16, you are inviscible and nothing bad can happen to you. Its a hard lesson learned and while he is at fault, may he STILL R.I.P.