Replace RX 300 for 2011 Toyota Highlander
08-24-10, 04:01 PM
#16
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We came from an RX 300 (avg 20 MPG) and obivously now have the 400h (currently averaging 27.2 MPG). So we do about 1800 miles per month @ 2.75 a gal. (mind you that the savings were far more pronounced when gas was $4.00) 1800 miles in the 400h would be $181.89 whereas it would cost $247.50 in the RX 300 a difference of $65.61 per month. Multiplying this by the 40 months that we have owned the car equals a difference of $2624.40. The premium of this hybrid was $3000 more than a similarily equipped RX 350. Subtract $500 for the PA tax credit for purchasing a hybrid. At the time an $1800 federal rebate was available but we did not qualify. Anyway, this would put the premium of this 6 cylinder hybrid at $2500.
But, wait it gets better. The hybrid requires less maintenance. The biggest savings here are in the brakes. An RX 350 should require servicing of the brakes at about 60k miles. This costs between $350 to $400. The hybrid does not employ the hydraulic brakes very often, it relies more on the regenerative brakes (no maint. required). At our 60k mile service our brakes still were still at 75%, so presumably the brakes will not be replaced until after 150k miles, saving $700 to $800 at least.
Furthermore, we needed to replace our RX 300 for a vehicle that could tow a 21 foot boat. At the time the following were available with the potency (some more so than others that the 400h offers and the RX 350 does not): X5 4.8L avg. 16.5 MPG, costing $300 for one month's worth of fuel, GX 470 avg. 16 MPG, costing $309 per month, Q7 4.2L avg. 15 MPG, costing $330 a month, Explorer 4.6L, avg. 15.5, costing $319 a month.
So if you took the most efficient one, the X5 ($12,000 for 40 months worth of fuel) compared to the 400h ($7275.60 for 40 months worth of fuel) a difference of $4724.40. But, that is all based off of gas being $2.75 a gal. The price has fluctuated in the 40 months that we have the owned the car. So let's say an average of $3.50 a gal. The X5 would cost $15272 to fuel over 40 months time whereas the RX would cost $9264 a difference of $6007.
And that is how the RX400h has paid for itself.
For arguments sake the kbb trade in value on a 400h with 70k miles is: $22,500 in good condition as opposed to an identical RX 350 being worth $20,125.
Last edited by SLegacy99; 08-24-10 at 04:07 PM.
08-24-10, 04:59 PM
#17
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I'd be happy to enlighten you.
We came from an RX 300 (avg 20 MPG) and obivously now have the 400h (currently averaging 27.2 MPG). So we do about 1800 miles per month @ 2.75 a gal. (mind you that the savings were far more pronounced when gas was $4.00) 1800 miles in the 400h would be $181.89 whereas it would cost $247.50 in the RX 300 a difference of $65.61 per month. Multiplying this by the 40 months that we have owned the car equals a difference of $2624.40. The premium of this hybrid was $3000 more than a similarily equipped RX 350. Subtract $500 for the PA tax credit for purchasing a hybrid. At the time an $1800 federal rebate was available but we did not qualify. Anyway, this would put the premium of this 6 cylinder hybrid at $2500.
But, wait it gets better. The hybrid requires less maintenance. The biggest savings here are in the brakes. An RX 350 should require servicing of the brakes at about 60k miles. This costs between $350 to $400. The hybrid does not employ the hydraulic brakes very often, it relies more on the regenerative brakes (no maint. required). At our 60k mile service our brakes still were still at 75%, so presumably the brakes will not be replaced until after 150k miles, saving $700 to $800 at least.
Furthermore, we needed to replace our RX 300 for a vehicle that could tow a 21 foot boat. At the time the following were available with the potency (some more so than others that the 400h offers and the RX 350 does not): X5 4.8L avg. 16.5 MPG, costing $300 for one month's worth of fuel, GX 470 avg. 16 MPG, costing $309 per month, Q7 4.2L avg. 15 MPG, costing $330 a month, Explorer 4.6L, avg. 15.5, costing $319 a month.
So if you took the most efficient one, the X5 ($12,000 for 40 months worth of fuel) compared to the 400h ($7275.60 for 40 months worth of fuel) a difference of $4724.40. But, that is all based off of gas being $2.75 a gal. The price has fluctuated in the 40 months that we have the owned the car. So let's say an average of $3.50 a gal. The X5 would cost $15272 to fuel over 40 months time whereas the RX would cost $9264 a difference of $6007.
And that is how the RX400h has paid for itself.
For arguments sake the kbb trade in value on a 400h with 70k miles is: $22,500 in good condition as opposed to an identical RX 350 being worth $20,125.
We came from an RX 300 (avg 20 MPG) and obivously now have the 400h (currently averaging 27.2 MPG). So we do about 1800 miles per month @ 2.75 a gal. (mind you that the savings were far more pronounced when gas was $4.00) 1800 miles in the 400h would be $181.89 whereas it would cost $247.50 in the RX 300 a difference of $65.61 per month. Multiplying this by the 40 months that we have owned the car equals a difference of $2624.40. The premium of this hybrid was $3000 more than a similarily equipped RX 350. Subtract $500 for the PA tax credit for purchasing a hybrid. At the time an $1800 federal rebate was available but we did not qualify. Anyway, this would put the premium of this 6 cylinder hybrid at $2500.
But, wait it gets better. The hybrid requires less maintenance. The biggest savings here are in the brakes. An RX 350 should require servicing of the brakes at about 60k miles. This costs between $350 to $400. The hybrid does not employ the hydraulic brakes very often, it relies more on the regenerative brakes (no maint. required). At our 60k mile service our brakes still were still at 75%, so presumably the brakes will not be replaced until after 150k miles, saving $700 to $800 at least.
Furthermore, we needed to replace our RX 300 for a vehicle that could tow a 21 foot boat. At the time the following were available with the potency (some more so than others that the 400h offers and the RX 350 does not): X5 4.8L avg. 16.5 MPG, costing $300 for one month's worth of fuel, GX 470 avg. 16 MPG, costing $309 per month, Q7 4.2L avg. 15 MPG, costing $330 a month, Explorer 4.6L, avg. 15.5, costing $319 a month.
So if you took the most efficient one, the X5 ($12,000 for 40 months worth of fuel) compared to the 400h ($7275.60 for 40 months worth of fuel) a difference of $4724.40. But, that is all based off of gas being $2.75 a gal. The price has fluctuated in the 40 months that we have the owned the car. So let's say an average of $3.50 a gal. The X5 would cost $15272 to fuel over 40 months time whereas the RX would cost $9264 a difference of $6007.
And that is how the RX400h has paid for itself.
For arguments sake the kbb trade in value on a 400h with 70k miles is: $22,500 in good condition as opposed to an identical RX 350 being worth $20,125.
Great report I think were leaning towards the Hybrid.
08-24-10, 05:00 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Didn't know that you (or someone in your family) had an RX Hybrid. Great vehicle.
08-24-10, 05:03 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
08-24-10, 05:15 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
08-24-10, 05:22 PM
#21
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08-24-10, 05:56 PM
#22
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Hope that this has helped. I myself am not an SUV person, but if I were to get one now, it would have to be a hybrid. My boss has an MDX, which is also a nice vehicle, but with 80k on its clock, the lifetime fuel economy avg. is 17.8 MPG. Way too wasteful and the hybrid really does shine.
There are pros and cons.
Pros: Fuel economy, ride comfort, instant torque from the electric motors/overall great power, state tax rebates, reduced maintenance cost.
Cons: It costs more, service techs know less about them (though this is obviously improving with time), 3.3L engine. I say the 3.3L engine as this is what the 400h and Highlander hybrid utilize...The 3.5L is just worlds ahead as made evident by the RX 450h.
We have only had one problem with our 400h (making it far more reliable than our RX 300). At 60k miles the fuel economy plummeted to 20 MPG. A bad cell in the 12 Volt battery (your standard car battery) was causing the engine to run excessively to charge it. Lexus replaced the battery under warranty and the mileage went back up.
Our city mileage has ranged from 25 MPG to as high as 40. Highway mileage is typically 27 MPG, but when towing 23 MPG is average, yet I have seen as high as 32 MPG Hwy. I have found that running 89 octane results in better highway mileage, but 87 seems to be fine for city commuting, most likely because the engine is turning on and off at different intervals as opposed to continuously running.
Thanks. We have had this vehicle since March of '07. It wasn't clear whether the fuel savings would be worth it, but like I said we needed the extra power which made the argument toward a hybrid more compelling, not to mention it is cheaper than its V8 luxury counterparts. Gas hit $4 and this car was certainly more worthwhile. My dad is eager to get a hybrid of his own, so a CT may be in his future.
I do agree with 1sicklex, people buy a hybrid for different reasons. Driving on all electric is an incredibly smooth feeling that definately should be taken into account.
There are pros and cons.
Pros: Fuel economy, ride comfort, instant torque from the electric motors/overall great power, state tax rebates, reduced maintenance cost.
Cons: It costs more, service techs know less about them (though this is obviously improving with time), 3.3L engine. I say the 3.3L engine as this is what the 400h and Highlander hybrid utilize...The 3.5L is just worlds ahead as made evident by the RX 450h.
We have only had one problem with our 400h (making it far more reliable than our RX 300). At 60k miles the fuel economy plummeted to 20 MPG. A bad cell in the 12 Volt battery (your standard car battery) was causing the engine to run excessively to charge it. Lexus replaced the battery under warranty and the mileage went back up.
Our city mileage has ranged from 25 MPG to as high as 40. Highway mileage is typically 27 MPG, but when towing 23 MPG is average, yet I have seen as high as 32 MPG Hwy. I have found that running 89 octane results in better highway mileage, but 87 seems to be fine for city commuting, most likely because the engine is turning on and off at different intervals as opposed to continuously running.
I do agree with 1sicklex, people buy a hybrid for different reasons. Driving on all electric is an incredibly smooth feeling that definately should be taken into account.
08-24-10, 06:25 PM
#23
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He summed things up pretty well!
The only thing about the Higlander is it uses the older 3.3 engine and MPG is less then the RX 450h. As Phil said maybe the 2011 will get an updated engine I am not sure. The Highlander hybrid averages 26 MPG to the AWD V-6 19. The City MPG is a whopping 10 MPG difference.
We like peace and quiet and hybrids supply that, especially the Highlander/RX. The electric motors power the car constantly and the vehicle is very quiet. A hybrid at a stop or driving on the electric batteries has 50% less NVH than an engine only car. Its a big difference in quiet.
Emissions is much cleaner than a non hybrid.
In the RX's case, performance is a tad better.
We also like the fact the RX hybrid is styled differently then regular models.
Resale is also strong and if gas prices go up this will only help resale values.
The only thing about the Higlander is it uses the older 3.3 engine and MPG is less then the RX 450h. As Phil said maybe the 2011 will get an updated engine I am not sure. The Highlander hybrid averages 26 MPG to the AWD V-6 19. The City MPG is a whopping 10 MPG difference.
We like peace and quiet and hybrids supply that, especially the Highlander/RX. The electric motors power the car constantly and the vehicle is very quiet. A hybrid at a stop or driving on the electric batteries has 50% less NVH than an engine only car. Its a big difference in quiet.
Emissions is much cleaner than a non hybrid.
In the RX's case, performance is a tad better.
We also like the fact the RX hybrid is styled differently then regular models.
Resale is also strong and if gas prices go up this will only help resale values.
08-24-10, 07:03 PM
#24
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so brakes aside, you spent 3000 more for your rx400h vs a standard rx350....you saved about 2500 and add the 500 tax credit refund and your at 3000 dollars. that's about a wash would u say ?
(let's take out your previous car and your need to tow out of the equation)
ok the brakes, that's cool you save let's say 400 bucks. about 3 years of ownership...400 bucks I'll still take it. let's say you drive it another 40 months and your at about 150k miles......now what about the hybrid battery you need to replace ?
(let's take out your previous car and your need to tow out of the equation)
ok the brakes, that's cool you save let's say 400 bucks. about 3 years of ownership...400 bucks I'll still take it. let's say you drive it another 40 months and your at about 150k miles......now what about the hybrid battery you need to replace ?
I'd be happy to enlighten you.
We came from an RX 300 (avg 20 MPG) and obivously now have the 400h (currently averaging 27.2 MPG). So we do about 1800 miles per month @ 2.75 a gal. (mind you that the savings were far more pronounced when gas was $4.00) 1800 miles in the 400h would be $181.89 whereas it would cost $247.50 in the RX 300 a difference of $65.61 per month. Multiplying this by the 40 months that we have owned the car equals a difference of $2624.40. The premium of this hybrid was $3000 more than a similarily equipped RX 350. Subtract $500 for the PA tax credit for purchasing a hybrid. At the time an $1800 federal rebate was available but we did not qualify. Anyway, this would put the premium of this 6 cylinder hybrid at $2500.
But, wait it gets better. The hybrid requires less maintenance. The biggest savings here are in the brakes. An RX 350 should require servicing of the brakes at about 60k miles. This costs between $350 to $400. The hybrid does not employ the hydraulic brakes very often, it relies more on the regenerative brakes (no maint. required). At our 60k mile service our brakes still were still at 75%, so presumably the brakes will not be replaced until after 150k miles, saving $700 to $800 at least.
Furthermore, we needed to replace our RX 300 for a vehicle that could tow a 21 foot boat. At the time the following were available with the potency (some more so than others that the 400h offers and the RX 350 does not): X5 4.8L avg. 16.5 MPG, costing $300 for one month's worth of fuel, GX 470 avg. 16 MPG, costing $309 per month, Q7 4.2L avg. 15 MPG, costing $330 a month, Explorer 4.6L, avg. 15.5, costing $319 a month.
So if you took the most efficient one, the X5 ($12,000 for 40 months worth of fuel) compared to the 400h ($7275.60 for 40 months worth of fuel) a difference of $4724.40. But, that is all based off of gas being $2.75 a gal. The price has fluctuated in the 40 months that we have the owned the car. So let's say an average of $3.50 a gal. The X5 would cost $15272 to fuel over 40 months time whereas the RX would cost $9264 a difference of $6007.
And that is how the RX400h has paid for itself.
For arguments sake the kbb trade in value on a 400h with 70k miles is: $22,500 in good condition as opposed to an identical RX 350 being worth $20,125.
We came from an RX 300 (avg 20 MPG) and obivously now have the 400h (currently averaging 27.2 MPG). So we do about 1800 miles per month @ 2.75 a gal. (mind you that the savings were far more pronounced when gas was $4.00) 1800 miles in the 400h would be $181.89 whereas it would cost $247.50 in the RX 300 a difference of $65.61 per month. Multiplying this by the 40 months that we have owned the car equals a difference of $2624.40. The premium of this hybrid was $3000 more than a similarily equipped RX 350. Subtract $500 for the PA tax credit for purchasing a hybrid. At the time an $1800 federal rebate was available but we did not qualify. Anyway, this would put the premium of this 6 cylinder hybrid at $2500.
But, wait it gets better. The hybrid requires less maintenance. The biggest savings here are in the brakes. An RX 350 should require servicing of the brakes at about 60k miles. This costs between $350 to $400. The hybrid does not employ the hydraulic brakes very often, it relies more on the regenerative brakes (no maint. required). At our 60k mile service our brakes still were still at 75%, so presumably the brakes will not be replaced until after 150k miles, saving $700 to $800 at least.
Furthermore, we needed to replace our RX 300 for a vehicle that could tow a 21 foot boat. At the time the following were available with the potency (some more so than others that the 400h offers and the RX 350 does not): X5 4.8L avg. 16.5 MPG, costing $300 for one month's worth of fuel, GX 470 avg. 16 MPG, costing $309 per month, Q7 4.2L avg. 15 MPG, costing $330 a month, Explorer 4.6L, avg. 15.5, costing $319 a month.
So if you took the most efficient one, the X5 ($12,000 for 40 months worth of fuel) compared to the 400h ($7275.60 for 40 months worth of fuel) a difference of $4724.40. But, that is all based off of gas being $2.75 a gal. The price has fluctuated in the 40 months that we have the owned the car. So let's say an average of $3.50 a gal. The X5 would cost $15272 to fuel over 40 months time whereas the RX would cost $9264 a difference of $6007.
And that is how the RX400h has paid for itself.
For arguments sake the kbb trade in value on a 400h with 70k miles is: $22,500 in good condition as opposed to an identical RX 350 being worth $20,125.
08-24-10, 07:07 PM
#25
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so brakes aside, you spent 3000 more for your rx400h vs a standard rx350....you saved about 2500 and add the 500 tax credit refund and your at 3000 dollars. that's about a wash would u say ?
(let's take out your previous car and your need to tow out of the equation)
ok the brakes, that's cool you save let's say 400 bucks. about 3 years of ownership...400 bucks I'll still take it. let's say you drive it another 40 months and your at about 150k miles......now what about the hybrid battery you need to replace ?
(let's take out your previous car and your need to tow out of the equation)
ok the brakes, that's cool you save let's say 400 bucks. about 3 years of ownership...400 bucks I'll still take it. let's say you drive it another 40 months and your at about 150k miles......now what about the hybrid battery you need to replace ?
Battery replacement is RARE. People that do need them can buy them used on ebay for example for thousands less. Sometimes Toyota/Lexus will cut the price of a replacement battery.
You completely missed the other points. It looks different, its quieter, you can get aluminum trim, resale is higher, its faster, emissions are much cleaner etc etc.
Not sure why some people want to bust out the 4 function calculator to try to disprove hybrids.
08-24-10, 07:08 PM
#26
Lexus Champion
Since you have the GM bucks, I'd definitely check out the Acadia/Enclave/Traverse twins if you have those GM bucks. They ride great, are high quality and are very very roomy.
How much bigger is the current Highlander than the RX? Odd that the RX hasn't kept up with the Highlander since they were nearly twins up until this latest gen.
How much bigger is the current Highlander than the RX? Odd that the RX hasn't kept up with the Highlander since they were nearly twins up until this latest gen.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 08-25-10 at 08:30 AM. Reason: removed personal content - not needed
08-24-10, 07:29 PM
#27
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Further enlightenment for you.
San Francisco taxi drivers are providing solid information about the outer reaches of hybrid battery life. At a recent Ford Motor Company event, Paul Gillespie, San Francisco Taxicab Commission president, said some of his city’s Ford Escape hybrid taxis had passed 300,000 miles of use with no problems. He added that they also found brake life to be three times normal due to the regenerative braking system
For almost five years, I have operated three Toyota Priuses as a Yellow Cab--with no failures. The first Prius, a 2001 model, was put on the road Nov. 1, 2000, and acquired 200,000 miles in 25 months. The components that did wear out were not hybrid related components. The current 2004 Prius that is on as a Yellow Cab in Vancouver B.C. Canada just passed 240,000 miles and still no major repairs.
08-24-10, 08:18 PM
#29
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that's right! kia sorento all the way !!
I'm sure if it was a Kia Sorento Hybrid or a Hyundai Sante Fe hybrid you would tell him go check that out and its the greatest thing in the world.
Battery replacement is RARE. People that do need them can buy them used on ebay for example for thousands less. Sometimes Toyota/Lexus will cut the price of a replacement battery.
You completely missed the other points. It looks different, its quieter, you can get aluminum trim, resale is higher, its faster, emissions are much cleaner etc etc.
Not sure why some people want to bust out the 4 function calculator to try to disprove hybrids.
Battery replacement is RARE. People that do need them can buy them used on ebay for example for thousands less. Sometimes Toyota/Lexus will cut the price of a replacement battery.
You completely missed the other points. It looks different, its quieter, you can get aluminum trim, resale is higher, its faster, emissions are much cleaner etc etc.
Not sure why some people want to bust out the 4 function calculator to try to disprove hybrids.