I need some serious advice on my next Lexus ES300 or GS?
09-01-10, 05:26 PM
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I need some serious advice on my next Lexus ES300 or GS?
Hello, i had my 1998 Es300 for 3 years, i bought the car with 140k and it now has 183k. The only things i had to do to the car is tires, brakes, oil changes, tuneup, and a valve cover! With 183k the car was still quiet and shifted so smooth! Everything still worked excellent. Well a car ran into me and it looks like i'll have to buy another car. I was looking at an 02 to 05 ES300 or a 99 to 2000 GS300. I can actually get a GS300 for $3,000 cheaper. The last guy I bought my car from said the GS's have a lot of electrical problems and sometimes transmission. But another dealer told me he's owned a gs and sold many and that's not true other than some door and window problems. Considering the fact that whether I buy an ES or GS its probably gonna have around 130k, which should I go with? A 99 GS or 02 ES? I don't know anything about those year models, I do know my 98 ES300 never let me down for 3 years, I never spent over $400 at once on the maintenance and at the time of the accident it had 183k. Will an 02 ES300 or 99 GS300 last me like that? Like are the 02 ES300s as reliable as my 98 was? I want an 02 ES because the body is different from my 98 and i've always liked the GS. I can't afford the LS yet, lol. Also is maintenance more on the GS, like if you get a GS you can't buy Toyota (Camry) parts right? I'd have to go to Lexus? Oil changes and all that more on the GS? For the record I always put Lexus parts on my Lexus, but just in the case, it was always good to know I had a less expensive alternative with Toyota. Thanks
09-01-10, 06:16 PM
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Salesmen say all sorts of things that aren't necessarily true. And selling many GS's doesn't make someone an expert on model reliability. I would be tempted to speak with someone in the service department, if they would be willing.
09-01-10, 06:20 PM
#3
I have quite a bit of experience with both of these platforms.
First off, the guy who said the GS has a lot of electrical/transmission probably has a faulty one. The GS do have door lock actuators go out, but once replaced, they will probably outlast your ownership. The actuators are EXPENSIVE, but there is a DIY fix out there that will cost you less than $40 to fix all 4 doors if they were to ever go out.
The transmission is proven to be dead reliable if taken care of it. I rarely hear of any transmission problems on the GS. The 02-06 ES were plagued with erratic/laggy shift, unresponsive downshift, and even some jerking here and there. The transmission is not the problem, but rather the software implemented into the car. You can read more about this in the ES300/330 part of the forum. There have been software updates provided by Lexus, but some say it got worse while other say it got better.
While both cars have 3.0L 6-cyl engines, the GS will eat more gas, to the point where the consumption is about the same as the GS400/430.
But since the GS share the same engine as the Toyota Supra NA, you can easily get most engine/parts from the Toyota dealership. In fact, I usually order my parts through Toyota even though some parts are only found on Lexus. Depending on the dealer, some people are able to get their ES/GS serviced at their local Toyota dealership instead.
When the GS needs attention, it'll WILL cost you. Aside from the body and interior, the ES shares everything else with the Camry so repairs will be cheaper.
No matter what you buy, expect some initial repairs because both cars have their faults.
First off, the guy who said the GS has a lot of electrical/transmission probably has a faulty one. The GS do have door lock actuators go out, but once replaced, they will probably outlast your ownership. The actuators are EXPENSIVE, but there is a DIY fix out there that will cost you less than $40 to fix all 4 doors if they were to ever go out.
The transmission is proven to be dead reliable if taken care of it. I rarely hear of any transmission problems on the GS. The 02-06 ES were plagued with erratic/laggy shift, unresponsive downshift, and even some jerking here and there. The transmission is not the problem, but rather the software implemented into the car. You can read more about this in the ES300/330 part of the forum. There have been software updates provided by Lexus, but some say it got worse while other say it got better.
While both cars have 3.0L 6-cyl engines, the GS will eat more gas, to the point where the consumption is about the same as the GS400/430.
But since the GS share the same engine as the Toyota Supra NA, you can easily get most engine/parts from the Toyota dealership. In fact, I usually order my parts through Toyota even though some parts are only found on Lexus. Depending on the dealer, some people are able to get their ES/GS serviced at their local Toyota dealership instead.
When the GS needs attention, it'll WILL cost you. Aside from the body and interior, the ES shares everything else with the Camry so repairs will be cheaper.
No matter what you buy, expect some initial repairs because both cars have their faults.
09-01-10, 07:54 PM
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The newer ES is a nice upgrade to the previous model. Not a fan of the exterior styling but reliablity and build were first rate. The interior is simply fantastic. It will cost you less to own and maintain. It rides even softer and bigger than your current ES.
The GS is really a completely different car. The build is another level of quality. The 99 is older so it will feel older. As GSteg said it is a reliable Lexus but when things go it can get expensive.
The two drive completely different.
The GS is really a completely different car. The build is another level of quality. The 99 is older so it will feel older. As GSteg said it is a reliable Lexus but when things go it can get expensive.
The two drive completely different.
09-01-10, 07:55 PM
#5
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The '02 ES330 should be generally reliable, although, as GSteg has noted, a common source of complaints is a transmission ECU that sometimes allows flares and sluggish-shifts, impacting performance. I have a very high opinion of this car...it rides smoothly, the interior quality and fit/finish is superb, and, IMO, is much better than the interior of its ES350 successor...though the ES350 got a significant interior-trim upgrade for 2010. The ES350 also got slightly more agreesive wheels/tires/suspension than the 330 has, stiffening up the ride slightly, but still not to sport-sedan levels.
If you are concerned about the cost of Lexus service (and you don't do your own), you can call around and ask some Toyota shops if they will do small things like oil/coolant/transmission-fluid changes, belt-replacements, etc......
In my area, some Toyota dealers will also do service on Lexus products (at a substantially lower price than at Lexus shops). It is a bargain....because Lexus generally uses the same filters, fluids, and srvice-parts as many Toyota models. And, of course, independent-shops often charge less, too.
If you are concerned about the cost of Lexus service (and you don't do your own), you can call around and ask some Toyota shops if they will do small things like oil/coolant/transmission-fluid changes, belt-replacements, etc......
In my area, some Toyota dealers will also do service on Lexus products (at a substantially lower price than at Lexus shops). It is a bargain....because Lexus generally uses the same filters, fluids, and srvice-parts as many Toyota models. And, of course, independent-shops often charge less, too.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-01-10 at 08:01 PM.
09-01-10, 08:56 PM
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First off thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it.
thanks a lot, hmmmm so maintenance on the GS will be much higher than the ES? I'm concerned about this lagging thing you spoke of, that's one problem I never had with my 98 ES300, its just a smooth ride, the post after yours said the 02 rides much smoother than my 98. If there is some lagging/jerking, shifting problems, that would eventually screw up the transmission right?
"The newer ES is a nice upgrade to the previous model. Not a fan of the exterior styling but reliablity and build were first rate. The interior is simply fantastic. It will cost you less to own and maintain. It rides even softer and bigger than your current ES.
The GS is really a completely different car. The build is another level of quality. The 99 is older so it will feel older. As GSteg said it is a reliable Lexus but when things go it can get expensive.
The two drive completely different. "
ok you have me shifting more towards the es and the fact that i've owned an es, I know its a good car, but I am concerned about this shifting/lagging thing some have spoke on.
mmarshall i'm looking at the ES300 or GS300, the dealerships i've went to don't have the 330 and 350, besides that will probably boosts the price a few thousand. But is this transmission ECU problem on the ES300? How much is the fix? Was it recalled? maybe since i'm buying it used maybe its already been fixed?
thanks
I have quite a bit of experience with both of these platforms.
First off, the guy who said the GS has a lot of electrical/transmission probably has a faulty one. The GS do have door lock actuators go out, but once replaced, they will probably outlast your ownership. The actuators are EXPENSIVE, but there is a DIY fix out there that will cost you less than $40 to fix all 4 doors if they were to ever go out.
The transmission is proven to be dead reliable if taken care of it. I rarely hear of any transmission problems on the GS. The 02-06 ES were plagued with erratic/laggy shift, unresponsive downshift, and even some jerking here and there. The transmission is not the problem, but rather the software implemented into the car. You can read more about this in the ES300/330 part of the forum. There have been software updates provided by Lexus, but some say it got worse while other say it got better.
While both cars have 3.0L 6-cyl engines, the GS will eat more gas, to the point where the consumption is about the same as the GS400/430.
But since the GS share the same engine as the Toyota Supra NA, you can easily get most engine/parts from the Toyota dealership. In fact, I usually order my parts through Toyota even though some parts are only found on Lexus. Depending on the dealer, some people are able to get their ES/GS serviced at their local Toyota dealership instead.
When the GS needs attention, it'll WILL cost you. Aside from the body and interior, the ES shares everything else with the Camry so repairs will be cheaper.
No matter what you buy, expect some initial repairs because both cars have their faults.
First off, the guy who said the GS has a lot of electrical/transmission probably has a faulty one. The GS do have door lock actuators go out, but once replaced, they will probably outlast your ownership. The actuators are EXPENSIVE, but there is a DIY fix out there that will cost you less than $40 to fix all 4 doors if they were to ever go out.
The transmission is proven to be dead reliable if taken care of it. I rarely hear of any transmission problems on the GS. The 02-06 ES were plagued with erratic/laggy shift, unresponsive downshift, and even some jerking here and there. The transmission is not the problem, but rather the software implemented into the car. You can read more about this in the ES300/330 part of the forum. There have been software updates provided by Lexus, but some say it got worse while other say it got better.
While both cars have 3.0L 6-cyl engines, the GS will eat more gas, to the point where the consumption is about the same as the GS400/430.
But since the GS share the same engine as the Toyota Supra NA, you can easily get most engine/parts from the Toyota dealership. In fact, I usually order my parts through Toyota even though some parts are only found on Lexus. Depending on the dealer, some people are able to get their ES/GS serviced at their local Toyota dealership instead.
When the GS needs attention, it'll WILL cost you. Aside from the body and interior, the ES shares everything else with the Camry so repairs will be cheaper.
No matter what you buy, expect some initial repairs because both cars have their faults.
"The newer ES is a nice upgrade to the previous model. Not a fan of the exterior styling but reliablity and build were first rate. The interior is simply fantastic. It will cost you less to own and maintain. It rides even softer and bigger than your current ES.
The GS is really a completely different car. The build is another level of quality. The 99 is older so it will feel older. As GSteg said it is a reliable Lexus but when things go it can get expensive.
The two drive completely different. "
ok you have me shifting more towards the es and the fact that i've owned an es, I know its a good car, but I am concerned about this shifting/lagging thing some have spoke on.
mmarshall i'm looking at the ES300 or GS300, the dealerships i've went to don't have the 330 and 350, besides that will probably boosts the price a few thousand. But is this transmission ECU problem on the ES300? How much is the fix? Was it recalled? maybe since i'm buying it used maybe its already been fixed?
thanks
09-02-10, 03:23 PM
#7
The 'fix' is not 100% because the results are random. It 'helped' some, and made it worse for others. There was no recall ever issued because there were no safety threats involved.
As for the lag, it can come in many forms. For some, it takes a while for the transmission to shift from one gear to another while accelerating. Imagine holding 4th gear for a few seconds before the transmission decides it's time to go into 5th gear. Another lag that I've experienced is when you're on the highway and you need to pass another car, the transmission doesn't downshift until you're almost at 100% throttle. A 'solution' to this is to simply pull the shift lever into "4" so you get out of 5th gear. And finally, if you're cruising along and you decide to give it more throttle, the engine speed will climb but the car's speed will stay the same until you throttle it even more. Not all owners experience all these problems at once. It's pretty random and it there is little correlation with the year model and the mileage.
So yes, the ES will be cheaper to maintain. I have never heard of a transmission failure for the 02-06 ES300/330. Again the problem is the software which causes the transmission to be indecisive. Other than that, the car is phenomenal. The interior is simply the best looking of all the ES up to date, but the exterior is something that will take a while to grow on you.
If you are weary about the ES' transmission issues, take a test drive and I highly recommend you drive normally AND push the car hard(er). When I test drove my 05 ES330, the car felt normal. It wasn't until a week after the purchase that the car decided to act funny. The transmission would shift back and forth from 4th and 5th gear within a second, causing the jerk. I drove the car harder than usual so the ECU can learn my new driving habits and ever since then, the shifts were perfect.
As for my GS400, there was never a question about the mechanics of it. The engine and transmission are bulletproof and never once have I had to do a major repair. Just the normal maintenance and that's it. My door lock actuator went out, but that was fixed for under $40. The front lower ball joints were replaced since they tend to go bad once they're old.
As for the lag, it can come in many forms. For some, it takes a while for the transmission to shift from one gear to another while accelerating. Imagine holding 4th gear for a few seconds before the transmission decides it's time to go into 5th gear. Another lag that I've experienced is when you're on the highway and you need to pass another car, the transmission doesn't downshift until you're almost at 100% throttle. A 'solution' to this is to simply pull the shift lever into "4" so you get out of 5th gear. And finally, if you're cruising along and you decide to give it more throttle, the engine speed will climb but the car's speed will stay the same until you throttle it even more. Not all owners experience all these problems at once. It's pretty random and it there is little correlation with the year model and the mileage.
So yes, the ES will be cheaper to maintain. I have never heard of a transmission failure for the 02-06 ES300/330. Again the problem is the software which causes the transmission to be indecisive. Other than that, the car is phenomenal. The interior is simply the best looking of all the ES up to date, but the exterior is something that will take a while to grow on you.
If you are weary about the ES' transmission issues, take a test drive and I highly recommend you drive normally AND push the car hard(er). When I test drove my 05 ES330, the car felt normal. It wasn't until a week after the purchase that the car decided to act funny. The transmission would shift back and forth from 4th and 5th gear within a second, causing the jerk. I drove the car harder than usual so the ECU can learn my new driving habits and ever since then, the shifts were perfect.
As for my GS400, there was never a question about the mechanics of it. The engine and transmission are bulletproof and never once have I had to do a major repair. Just the normal maintenance and that's it. My door lock actuator went out, but that was fixed for under $40. The front lower ball joints were replaced since they tend to go bad once they're old.
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09-02-10, 08:54 PM
#8
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mmarshall i'm looking at the ES300 or GS300, the dealerships i've went to don't have the 330 and 350, besides that will probably boosts the price a few thousand. But is this transmission ECU problem on the ES300? How much is the fix? Was it recalled? maybe since i'm buying it used maybe its already been fixed? thanks
thanks
09-03-10, 08:01 AM
#10
02-06 ES is a very nice model. We've had ours since new and not a single issue other than routine maintenance. The interior is very nice, and I've grown fond of the exterior as well. Find one with nav if possible, it is still a good system even after 7+ years, as well as HID's.
Now in regards to the Tranny, the hesitation is there. If you have a lead foot and like to pull out into traffic fast than you might have a problem unless you compensate for it beforehand or have the flash done. We had it done and it was better, but it was erased when our battery died and I'll have to get it re-applied again. Basically it is an issue with the car but definitely shouldn't keep you away from the car altogether.
Now in regards to the Tranny, the hesitation is there. If you have a lead foot and like to pull out into traffic fast than you might have a problem unless you compensate for it beforehand or have the flash done. We had it done and it was better, but it was erased when our battery died and I'll have to get it re-applied again. Basically it is an issue with the car but definitely shouldn't keep you away from the car altogether.
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