First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Equus
09-07-10, 05:43 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SF
Posts: 6,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not ready to spend 60k on a Hyundai. You can find good deals everywhere on a LS around 70k. LS is a far better car with far better build quality, but that's only my opinion. I would happily pay 10k more to grab a LS.
Lastly, if you really are counting that last 10k, may be you should rethink about spending 60k for a car in the 1st place. But I do hope that Lexus takes note of this and make the next generation LS which blows away this.
Lastly, if you really are counting that last 10k, may be you should rethink about spending 60k for a car in the 1st place. But I do hope that Lexus takes note of this and make the next generation LS which blows away this.
09-07-10, 06:23 PM
#32
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not ready to spend 60k on a Hyundai. You can find good deals everywhere on a LS around 70k. LS is a far better car with far better build quality, but that's only my opinion. I would happily pay 10k more to grab a LS.
Lastly, if you really are counting that last 10k, may be you should rethink about spending 60k for a car in the 1st place. But I do hope that Lexus takes note of this and make the next generation LS which blows away this.
Lastly, if you really are counting that last 10k, may be you should rethink about spending 60k for a car in the 1st place. But I do hope that Lexus takes note of this and make the next generation LS which blows away this.
09-07-10, 06:42 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
The Equus will be no different.
09-07-10, 06:47 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
i don't care if dealers give full body massages to customers, i'd guess 99% of people HATE going to a car dealer, EVER, or even if it's 'nice' they can think of a billion places they'd rather be, like their dentist or proctologist.
the idea of cutting out the need to go to the dealer at all is GENIUS.
the fact that hyundai has had time to work out some kinks in their home market first is a win for u.s. customers.
the idea of cutting out the need to go to the dealer at all is GENIUS.
the fact that hyundai has had time to work out some kinks in their home market first is a win for u.s. customers.
09-07-10, 06:50 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
What relevance does this have to the Equus, or this thread?
As for the review at hand, I think the Equus is shaping up to be much of what I expected and I predict that Hyundai will not have much trouble finding a home for 2-3K units a year.
At face value, lets face it - the car offers a ton of bang for your buck and I think they are doing a good job of working around the "Hyundai dealership" problem. The Equus offers 7/10 of what an S Class, 7, or LS provide and I think most consumers who buy this car will see it as an astounding value, which it is. To most people in the car-buying public, the Equus delivers on the formula of a luxury car because it does a good job of satisfying the obvious requirements: it's flashy looking, has plenty of chrome, a nice interior, leather and wood everywhere, and features that mimic those of the gold-standards in this class. The only thing it's lacking is the respected badge, right?
Well...no. To those currently owning LS and S class, that remaining 30% is what makes or breaks the purchase...the details- things like an 8AT, or buttons that don't feel cheap, and a dashboard that doesn't feel like brittle plastic covered in a thin sheet of leather. To people who are familiar with these types of cars and already have experiences and expectations to draw upon, the Equus will not succeed but at the same time I don't think Hyundai is directly challenging them. To most of the car-buying public, it doesn't matter if the car has a 4AT or a 12AT - the transmission works, and so do the buttons, and the dashboard looks fancy too. These people are Equus buyers. I really do not see them pulling many current S Class, 7 Series or LS owners because those people are used to and look for that remaining 3/10 in a car and they're certainly willing to pay for it.
No doubt that Hyundai is about to roll out an aggressive marketing campaign targeting the big boys, but to the people who already own those cars, the Equus isn't on their radar anyway, and I'd venture to say that Hyundai isn't expecting to get many of them in the showroom anyway. There is a void in the market for a $50-$60K full size, "face-value-luxury" sedan like the Equus and because of that I think the car will succeed. Those truly comparing it to the LS, S, or 7 (IMO) don't have a full grasp of what those cars are truly about.
As for the review at hand, I think the Equus is shaping up to be much of what I expected and I predict that Hyundai will not have much trouble finding a home for 2-3K units a year.
At face value, lets face it - the car offers a ton of bang for your buck and I think they are doing a good job of working around the "Hyundai dealership" problem. The Equus offers 7/10 of what an S Class, 7, or LS provide and I think most consumers who buy this car will see it as an astounding value, which it is. To most people in the car-buying public, the Equus delivers on the formula of a luxury car because it does a good job of satisfying the obvious requirements: it's flashy looking, has plenty of chrome, a nice interior, leather and wood everywhere, and features that mimic those of the gold-standards in this class. The only thing it's lacking is the respected badge, right?
Well...no. To those currently owning LS and S class, that remaining 30% is what makes or breaks the purchase...the details- things like an 8AT, or buttons that don't feel cheap, and a dashboard that doesn't feel like brittle plastic covered in a thin sheet of leather. To people who are familiar with these types of cars and already have experiences and expectations to draw upon, the Equus will not succeed but at the same time I don't think Hyundai is directly challenging them. To most of the car-buying public, it doesn't matter if the car has a 4AT or a 12AT - the transmission works, and so do the buttons, and the dashboard looks fancy too. These people are Equus buyers. I really do not see them pulling many current S Class, 7 Series or LS owners because those people are used to and look for that remaining 3/10 in a car and they're certainly willing to pay for it.
No doubt that Hyundai is about to roll out an aggressive marketing campaign targeting the big boys, but to the people who already own those cars, the Equus isn't on their radar anyway, and I'd venture to say that Hyundai isn't expecting to get many of them in the showroom anyway. There is a void in the market for a $50-$60K full size, "face-value-luxury" sedan like the Equus and because of that I think the car will succeed. Those truly comparing it to the LS, S, or 7 (IMO) don't have a full grasp of what those cars are truly about.
There is no disputing that Hyundai hasn't improved their line up. Kudos to them.
The reality is that "bang for the buck" typically means "can't afford what I'd choose if I could afford it".
Those that are looking for "the deal" weren't buying MB/Audi/BMW/Porsche in the first place....and they certainly won't be switching to Hyundai in any significant numbers.
09-07-10, 07:03 PM
#36
Chalk it up for another guy who would like that kind of service! Honestly I got better things to do than to sit at the dealership waiting for the service to be performed. My coffee at home tastes just as good 
Everybody wins. Equus owners won't be embarrassed by having their cars serviced next to an Accent, and Hyundai will save money by not having to construct a different dealership for the 'experience'
Everybody wins. Equus owners won't be embarrassed by having their cars serviced next to an Accent, and Hyundai will save money by not having to construct a different dealership for the 'experience'
09-07-10, 07:14 PM
#38
I wish that wasn't the case but it's been an arguing point against Hyundai that was pointed out by the Lexus/BMW/Mercedes crowd. A lot of people feel that once they've jumped into the luxury game, they should be pampered. I kind of agree because most Hyundai dealerships are somewhat lacking, but that definitely shouldn't steer you away from buying a particular car. I could care less if my car was serviced next to a Yugo, as long as it's done properly.
09-07-10, 07:14 PM
#39
Lexus Champion
09-07-10, 08:10 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
09-07-10, 08:11 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
09-07-10, 08:22 PM
#43
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...-liter-tau-v-8
But the Equus won't get the bigger V-8 for launch. Instead, the first buyers of the car will have no option but the 4.6-liter Tau V-8, rated at 385 horsepower and 333 pound-feet of torque. The 5.0-liter mill, rated at 429-horsepower and 376 pound-feet of torque will become available next March. Both engines are slated to get an eight-speed automatic transmission. The big V-8 is more than stout enough to run with the BMW 750i's 400-horsepower 4.4-liter V-8, though it falls short of the potent V-12 engines found in the BMW 760i and Mercedes-Benz S600.
The Equus, being the top-of-the-line uber-flagship, comes with all 'normal' options standard. Everyone keeps comparing it to the 33k empty Genesis, or the 35k empty C/3, or the 55k empty E/5. However, if you've done your research, you will see that the C-class and 3 series cost 45k loaded, and the E/5 costs 70k loaded. An LS costs about 75k loaded. And, keep in mind, these are for the -basic- upgrades that come standard in the Equus - the basic Equus is comparably equipped to the fully-loaded versions of those vehicles. The 50k -> 60k jump is primarily for back-seat amenities not offered on anything other than S/7/A8. The limousine edition, as it were. It's their version of 750 -> 760.
Please explain to me how it's a 'good buy' - or even a reason for snobbery - for a person to spend 45k on a tiny, cramped car with a lot of prestige associated with the purchase price - and they will be 'laughing at' the person in the 50-60k car on the highway. I would just see an idiot willing to blow money on their propeller/star/4rings logo.
In short, someone whose own insecurities are greater than their desire to pamper themselves. Add to that, the majority of 3/C drivers are the standard Camry/Accord people who deluded themselves into believing they had 'arrived' because they could lease a tiny car with a hood ornament for the same price as reliable, bland transportation.
So I return to this: I keep hearing this argument that anyone in a BMW/MB will laugh at them. For what? For spending their money on their car, instead of their logo? For spending more on their large, spacious, quiet Equus than the lease payment on the tiny, unreliable, expensive to maintain prestige car? There's no logic here at all - just ingrained consumeristic lemming behavior.
Last edited by Fulorian; 09-07-10 at 08:27 PM.
09-07-10, 08:50 PM
#45
Sorry this is not like the LS and not like 1989.
The Equus looks like a great value but it won't send the Japanese or Germans scrambling to redo their vehicles. It's not even going to be sold in dealerships.
The LS made the Germans run to the drawing boards a it wasn't just cheaper but seen as the SUPERIOR vehicle. Then it included unheard of levels of customer service and quality at the time.
Lexus sold I believe 35,000 LS 400s in 6 months.
Hyundais has a 2-3,000 sales goal for the Equus.
It is an apples to oranges comparison.
The Equus looks like a great value but it won't send the Japanese or Germans scrambling to redo their vehicles. It's not even going to be sold in dealerships.
The LS made the Germans run to the drawing boards a it wasn't just cheaper but seen as the SUPERIOR vehicle. Then it included unheard of levels of customer service and quality at the time.
Lexus sold I believe 35,000 LS 400s in 6 months.
Hyundais has a 2-3,000 sales goal for the Equus.
It is an apples to oranges comparison.
you're right, it's not. it's better. or rather, it's more RELEVANT to today.
i don't care if dealers give full body massages to customers, i'd guess 99% of people HATE going to a car dealer, EVER, or even if it's 'nice' they can think of a billion places they'd rather be, like their dentist or proctologist.
the idea of cutting out the need to go to the dealer at all is GENIUS.
the fact that hyundai has had time to work out some kinks in their home market first is a win for u.s. customers.
the LS was superior in terms of refinement and build quality. it was 'different' in terms of features - some better, some lacking. mb/bmw had a MAJOR wake up call and it took YEARS for them to recover their footing. that situation is very different now of course so trying to completely 'surprise' them is basically impossible.
a modest goal (that still might not be met) is reasonable. no one knows how well this vehicle will do, but everyone knows they're launching it into one of the crappiest economies ever, plus when congress dumps the bush tax cuts on at least the highest earners and probably the middle class too, it's going to make the new luxury car market even worse. i suspect we're moving to a time when the VAST majority of higher end luxury vehicles will be leased though...
regardless, 2010 is a vastly different landscape than 1989. you're right... apples to oranges.
or rather, it's more RELEVANT to today.i don't care if dealers give full body massages to customers, i'd guess 99% of people HATE going to a car dealer, EVER, or even if it's 'nice' they can think of a billion places they'd rather be, like their dentist or proctologist.
the idea of cutting out the need to go to the dealer at all is GENIUS.
the fact that hyundai has had time to work out some kinks in their home market first is a win for u.s. customers.
the LS was superior in terms of refinement and build quality. it was 'different' in terms of features - some better, some lacking. mb/bmw had a MAJOR wake up call and it took YEARS for them to recover their footing. that situation is very different now of course so trying to completely 'surprise' them is basically impossible.
a modest goal (that still might not be met) is reasonable. no one knows how well this vehicle will do, but everyone knows they're launching it into one of the crappiest economies ever, plus when congress dumps the bush tax cuts on at least the highest earners and probably the middle class too, it's going to make the new luxury car market even worse. i suspect we're moving to a time when the VAST majority of higher end luxury vehicles will be leased though...
regardless, 2010 is a vastly different landscape than 1989. you're right... apples to oranges.
Both of you have excellent points. Here's my two cents. The one reason Lexus was so successful and got immediate badge recognition is because they made such an impact with their first model, the original LS400. In my not so humble opinion it blew the S class of that time out of the water. It was superior in almost every way - styling, interior, features, suspension, steering, efficiency, engine tech, air dynamics, etc. It drove and rode quieter, smoother and just generally felt like a much better car. It was good enough to be the next gen S class. It was an epic knock out punch that shook the whole industry and changed the luxury game completely. Its no surprise that it immediately captured the prestige and badge recognition.
But as Paul pointed out, it is not 1989 anymore, and it's pretty much impossible to repeat what Lexus did two decades ago. Back in 1989 Mercedes was most certainly sleeping, with the S class of that generation being basically 20 years old. There was also no competition at the S class level - Caddy was an oil spilling joke, Audi was relatively unknown and BMW was niche and not on the same level. Today the competition isn't sleeping and wont be caught by surprise. But then still, MB, BMW and Lexus are competing at the very edge, and each new model from either of the three is in many ways superior to their competitors previous model. The Equis however isn't superior. It's got nothing even on the aging S class and LS, and the new 7 series makes it look dated before it even goes on sale. It is a tremendous value if you look at the price tag, but that doesn't mean much. Look at the Genesis - selling at the price point of ES, and with lease rates rivaling G37, all while being a far superior car, it barely sells half that of ES.
there will be NO TOLERANCE for 'cultural' jabs at Korea or anywhere else, whether you like or don't like the Equus.
comments about the vehicle, its impact in the marketplace, comparisons to other vehicles (without snide remarks) and whether or not hyundai will be successful are welcomed.
comments about the vehicle, its impact in the marketplace, comparisons to other vehicles (without snide remarks) and whether or not hyundai will be successful are welcomed.