spwolf

just because Toyota equips their cheaper cars with 4 speed and 5 speed, to keep them affordable, does not mean that Honda should come with brand new car in 2010, in class where competition has standard AT6 and use 5 speed.

It is just backwards. Just like Honda introducing new AT diesel option in europe, in 2009, with 5 speeds... nobody could believe it. It is just one of these weird things that Honda does.

Toyota sells only single engine with 5 speed in Europe, and that is 1.0l 3cly.

5 speed can be as mpg friendly as 6 speed, but your experience will not be good, with long 5th gear. I am not sure that very long last gear equates to good user experience at the end, no matter what some lab test says.

Hondas have good mpg due to cylinder deactivation on the highway for their V6s.

I like their new Odyssey, a bit strange at the outside, but really nice inside.... They usually have quirky interiors so I am glad they used some Acura people for this one .

rogers2

Man, it's a Minivan who cares if it's 5 or 6 speed. I doubt the person who is purchasing a minivan cares if it's 5 or 6 speed all they care about is the amenities and mpg. Frankly I think MB 7 speed and Lexus 8 speed is just a marketing gimmick. Instead OF adding more gears bring the weight down Please. IMO I think both Toyota and Honda is at the top in this category.

mmarshall

Good points. I agree with you right on. I've long said that anything over 6 speeds is overkill. A lot of vehicles do just fine with a 5-speed. 4, though, gets to the point where it can be too inflexible.

IS-SV

^^ I disagree, but my perspective is more from a premium car standpoint. A magic number/limit of 6 speeds is meaningless. But I understand the perspective of the less demanding owners/drivers willing to accept dated and lower cost trannys.


Specific to topic (minivan) it should have a 6 speed minimum. It's not that the clueless minivan customer cares if it's 5/6/7 speed (agreed, the minivan driver doesn't often know or care), it's more a matter of delivering desired EPA fuel economy ratings and good real world mileage too.

UDel

Go back and read your/others post in this thread from people complaining Honda is using a 5 speed/6 speed option while others are using 6 speeds. You said specifically more gears help in fuel efficiency, Honda is stuck with a 5 speed, and everyone has moved on. People are mainly complaining that the use of a 5 speed auto is going to have a negative effect on fuel economy and the competition with 6 speeds will be ahead. I merely pointed out from EPA figures that even with a 5 speed auto the Odyssey gets better fuel economy then its competition particularly from Toyota that uses the 6 speed auto many are claiming is superior and better which it clearly isn't based on figures. Pointing out those figures is not being a "Honda apologist" whatever a "Honda apologist" is, it is very funny you of all people are accusing someone of being a "brand apologist".

The Odyssey could get better MPG argument is kind of mute when the Honda 6 speed unit only gets 1 mpg better then the 5 speed. The 5 speed is already class leading so why does every model need the 6 speed. Just for bragging rights? More likely the money saved on still using the 5 speed on most models went to better interior materials, suspension, fit/finish, etc and there is no loss to costumers since the 5 speed gets better fuel economy then the competitions 6 speeds. What do you get with 6 speed in the Sienna and extra money spent on giving it one more gear? It isn't better fuel economy then the Odyssey and unfortunately the interior quality takes a hit. All you get is bragging rights. Most in that market are not about bragging rights but the actual merits and value of the vehicle.

Honda has been known for a long time to do more with less. The NSX outperformed the Ferrari 328/348 and other high end sports cars with a v6 instead of v8. People sounded foolish when they said it only had a v6 and not a v8 when the v6 outperformed the Ferrari v8s in all performance aspects. The S2000 used a 4 cylinder to compete against 6 cylinder roadster/sportscars and outperformed them. The same can be said with Honda doing more with less gears in the Odyssey and Accord.

Who knows the 6 speed option in the Odyssey may be quicker(does not matter much to minivan buyers) or smoother(5 speed and J series is already class leading in smoothness) but it is not much more fuel efficient then the 5 speed so why not just use the class leading 5 speed and save money to be put on other areas like the interior. Honda also gives buyers the option of stepping up to the 6 speed if they mainly want bragging rights of having a 6 speed and the slight improvements it offers.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

UDel, I personally think Toyota drivetrain is smoother than Honda's. You don't feel the shifts as much and the engine is more isolated. However Honda does seem to have a nicer throttle response and when you gas the engine, the transmission knows what to do. On the Siennas I've driven (not the new 2011), you have to practically gun the damn thing before it shift and even so, it confuses itself sometimes. It's smoother, but laggy.

IS-SV

fyi:

lastest Sienna V6 2wd ratings are 18/24

lastest Oddessey V6 2 wd ratings are 16/23, with VCM 17/25.

Gas mileage differences are not very significant, which is not a good excuse for Honda being slow in providing competitive and the latest technology to its buyers. It's not about bragging rights, asphalt melting performance, autobahn warp speed cruising, hypermiling. It's called progress.

RX_330

Mid-range passing with the 5-speed transmissions is embarrassing. Because they are geared more for fuel economy, the gear ratios don't work well under heavy loads. The 6-speed in the Chrysler vans keep the 4.0L in the sweet spot most of the time and so it doesn't struggle as much.

While the Odyssey's engine and throttle are a tad peppier (in the current setup), the gearing just puts the engine below the powerband after each shift and it has to struggle as it climbs back up into its peak range.

UDel

Those Odyssey fuel economy numbers are for the 2010 current one not the 2011 new one we are talking about. There is a pretty big difference in hwy fuel economy between the 2011 Ody and Sienna whether it is the 5 or 6 speed.

The new 2011 Odyssey ratings are

18/27 for the 5 speed
19/28 for the 6 speed.

IS-SV

Thanks for the 2011 stats, I assume they are preliminary for VDM versions since they are not posted on EPA site yet.

UDel

I believe all the new 2011 Odysseys will have VCM or at least all 5 speed autos will. 6 speed I am not very sure but it most likely will have VCM.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

"Honda's now-familiar Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) is standard on all trim levels for 2011"

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I beg to differ on my 06 Henry. Unlike you got a couple of elephants in the van or the injectors are too damn dirty???

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

How do VCM fuel savings translate to real life savings?

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I can't imagine it doing much for folks who do mostly city driving.

It'll make more of a difference on the highway, but then again, if you're trying to push a big block of metal at higher speed on 3 cylinders, you have to fight harder against wind resistance.

I'm somewhat surprised at the 28mpg figure, especially seeing how it's a porky 4500lbs vehicle with an 'ancient' J-series.