First Drive: 2011 Honda Odyssey
#92
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Failed!!! I won't buy.
Swagger Wagen failed too (after I inspected the interior built quality and material use![Thumb Down](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsdown.gif)
), I won't buy.
I am waiting for the new Nissan Quest now...
(It looks appealing to me but I just have to see the real deal inside)
Swagger Wagen failed too (after I inspected the interior built quality and material use
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I am waiting for the new Nissan Quest now...
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#93
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^^ I disagree, but my perspective is more from a premium car standpoint. A magic number/limit of 6 speeds is meaningless. But I understand the perspective of the less demanding owners/drivers willing to accept dated and lower cost trannys.
Specific to topic (minivan) it should have a 6 speed minimum. It's not that the clueless minivan customer cares if it's 5/6/7 speed (agreed, the minivan driver doesn't often know or care), it's more a matter of delivering desired EPA fuel economy ratings and good real world mileage too.
Specific to topic (minivan) it should have a 6 speed minimum. It's not that the clueless minivan customer cares if it's 5/6/7 speed (agreed, the minivan driver doesn't often know or care), it's more a matter of delivering desired EPA fuel economy ratings and good real world mileage too.
#94
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I respect your opinion, and agree that one should not just pick an arbitrary figure out of thin air and stick to it like glue, but, in most cases (I can't think of any exceptions myself), 6 properly-spaced gears are all you need, at the very most, for a good balance of flexibility, close-ratios, economy, performance, and complexity/cost-of production. The M-B, Lexus, and BMW 7 and 8-speeds, as I see it, are just marketing figures on paper.
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If the automakers had picked arbitrary limits we would be stuck with 2 or 3 speed automatics still, lol. In some cases today, the newer trannys with more speeds are lighter with fewer parts due to better designs, nice progress.
1. EPA gas mileage ratings (a fact of life in US for the automakers whether they like it or not, not that gas expenses are a significant part of the premium car buyers budget)
2. Performance (measurable acceleration improvements, no impact on top speed)
3. Smoothness in all driving modes (via closer ratios in normal driving speed ranges).
Yes, it's they are nice numbers to show in marketing campaigns, but the reality is most buyers won't know/count/care the number of forward speeds.
Items 1,2,3 above are the main reasons for the advanced trannys.
Item 1 is the most important reason for the minivan discussion by far (on-topic would be 5 vs 6 speeds).
With multispeed tranny they can have the super tall overdrive top gear and close ratios below for smooth efficient operation.
Last edited by IS-SV; 09-16-10 at 11:35 AM. Reason: sp
#95
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I like the interior of the Honda, but the exterior of the Toyota. I was really hoping to replace my Odyssey, but there doesn't seem to be a clear winner.
What was particularly disappointing was the poor materials used in the Sienna. That much cheap plastic should not be in a car that goes for $45,000! Given that you can get a FX35 (loaded), Q5, RX350, or Cayenne for that kind of money, I was expecting much higher quality. (Yeah, I know they are luxury SUVs and not minivans, but still if you don't need to seat 7, then a luxury SUV seems to be a much better deal than a Sienna.)
#96
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its hard to have good quality of materials is a 45K car when the base price starts at $25K. Optioning up the Sienna to the gills doesnt include a nicer dash. They had to meet a price point, and it was smart for Toyota to lower the msrp with the 4 banger option during this economy.
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I've been reading the reviews and it shocks me that the Odyssey is getting better mpg than the Sienna, topping both of its engines. Even the 4 cylinder of the Sienna does not match the Odyssey mpg...19/28 vs 19/26. It seems like an embarrassment to Toyota. I mean the 4 cylinder was suppose to be the choice for fuel sippers, but now it gets topped by a bigger, more powerful V6. You have to hand it to Honda for being able to get those mpg numbers and beating Toyota at its own game.
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I've been reading the reviews and it shocks me that the Odyssey is getting better mpg than the Sienna, topping both of its engines. Even the 4 cylinder of the Sienna does not match the Odyssey mpg...19/28 vs 19/26. It seems like an embarrassment to Toyota. I mean the 4 cylinder was suppose to be the choice for fuel sippers, but now it gets topped by a bigger, more powerful V6. You have to hand it to Honda for being able to get those mpg numbers and beating Toyota at its own game.
Not even sure why Toyota offers the 4 cylinder Sienna as the V-6 has nearly the same MPG. Price leader I suppose.
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I am aware it has cylinder deactivation, but what are the owners complaints about it? The transition between the number of cylinders not smooth?
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No, the transition is not smooth, and the cylinder deactivation system takes too long to "decide" what to do. If you are on the highway, or even in the city in 3 cylinder mode and decide to punch it, the vehicle will hesitate for about a second. It makes Honda engines feel even more lethargic than they already do with their low torque characteristics. In real-world driving VCM does not deliver great gains. Also people keep in mind the Sienna V6 is faster 0-60 than what Honda is claiming for the 2011 Odyssey.
I would expect to see a Sienna hybrid soon, and that should crush the Odyssey's fuel economy, or the fuel economy of any other van for that matter.
I would expect to see a Sienna hybrid soon, and that should crush the Odyssey's fuel economy, or the fuel economy of any other van for that matter.
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No, the transition is not smooth, and the cylinder deactivation system takes too long to "decide" what to do. If you are on the highway, or even in the city in 3 cylinder mode and decide to punch it, the vehicle will hesitate for about a second. It makes Honda engines feel even more lethargic than they already do with their low torque characteristics. In real-world driving VCM does not deliver great gains. Also people keep in mind the Sienna V6 is faster 0-60 than what Honda is claiming for the 2011 Odyssey.
I would expect to see a Sienna hybrid soon, and that should crush the Odyssey's fuel economy, or the fuel economy of any other van for that matter.
I would expect to see a Sienna hybrid soon, and that should crush the Odyssey's fuel economy, or the fuel economy of any other van for that matter.
2. The Sienna is already WAY overpriced for the top versions. If they added a hybrid option to the Limited, it would push $50K.
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I have not examined the 2011 Sienna's interior thoroughly yet, although I did sit in one for a quick moment, and the quality seemed acceptable. I was never impressed with the 3rd gen Odysseys' interior quality myself (having thoroughly driven and examined that model) and I don't see this 2011 model being much different. I noticed cylinder deactivation in the 3rd-gen Odyssey on numerous occasions, but I guess not everyone would.
As for being a "driver's" minivan, who cares? I mean really? If a "driver's minivan" means a nervous suspension that rattles the subframes and chassis, and a stiff bouncy ride on anything but glass smooth roads, you can have it. The Sienna's ride always felt more confident to me on rough roads, which in real terms is the majority of roads out there, especially in areas that have cold winters with freezing and thawing.
Also in terms of handling, I think the 2011 Sienna SE will have something to say about being the "driver's van" of this generation.
As for being a "driver's" minivan, who cares? I mean really? If a "driver's minivan" means a nervous suspension that rattles the subframes and chassis, and a stiff bouncy ride on anything but glass smooth roads, you can have it. The Sienna's ride always felt more confident to me on rough roads, which in real terms is the majority of roads out there, especially in areas that have cold winters with freezing and thawing.
Also in terms of handling, I think the 2011 Sienna SE will have something to say about being the "driver's van" of this generation.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 09-18-10 at 01:15 PM.