LexFather

There seems to be a market for these 40k plus vans as the Odyessy, Sienna and T&C all play in that arena.

Will one hit 50k soon? Possibly (not counting the Benz R-class). It would interesting to see if people would buy it.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Again you have generalized the Odyssey's ride quality and make it sound worse than it is. You do feel more of the road, but that's one of the characteristics. Not everyone wants a super floaty ride like the Sienna, and the sales number dictates that.

The suspension is not 'nervous.' The word you are looking for is 'compliant.' The subframe/chassis does not rattle . If anything is rattling, it's the interior panels (particularly in the rear) which is not up to the 90s Honda standard. If you've driven an Odyssey that is bouncy, then something is wrong because it's not allowed to be bouncy in the first place.

TRDFantasy

You're right, something is wrong, and that is Honda's suspension tuning. You might've had a point if the Odyssey was the only modern Honda vehicle I've driven. This rules out that anything specifically was "wrong" with the Odyssey that I drove. Thing is, I've also driven the current Civic, Accord, and the 1st-gen Pilot. What all of them have in common is similar suspension tuning.

Not everyone wants a floaty ride? Really? Have you checked the Caravan/Town and Country sales numbers? Combined they easily outsell the Odyssey. In fact, the Town and Country alone has outsold the Odyssey this year. It is the top-selling van in the US right now, not the Odyssey.

Clearly we have a difference of opinion. You can call it "complaint" if you want, but I call it nervous. Over potholes or rough patches of road the suspension gets unsettled and the suspension damping is inadequate. I've noticed this in several Honda vehicles as mentioned above, not just in the Odyssey. When hitting a highway joint or pothole the suspension subframes do rattle, yes. I have felt this in several Honda vehicles. To me, the suspension does get bouncy and unsettled in rough roads in the above-mentioned vehicles.

Since you've mentioned it, yes the interior rear panels also do rattle in the 3rd-gen Odyssey and contrary to what some people have said in this thread, the 3rd-gen Odyssey's interior is not significantly better overall than the new Sienna's. The new Odyssey interior likely won't be significantly better either. The center stack/dash in the new Odyssey looks like an ergonomic nightmare, with a ton of small buttons everywhere.

LeX2K

I'm completely baffled by the styling direction Honda and Acura have gone. The styling cues are getting more and more bizarre. Actually if I really squint, the Pontiac Aztek might be a better looking vehicle lol.

madoka

What you claim is at completely odds with not only my observations (as an actual owner of an Odyssey and not just someone who took a ride in it once), but that of the owners at odyclub.com and every professional review I've read. Nuff said.

mmarshall

I agree that some Subies could use at least a 5th gear (I've said that before......and, at a 50K+ price, I recently panned the Cadillac DTS for that). But still doesn't change my opinion on 7 or 8 being overkill. I think we are just going to disagree on that. Once you start putting in that many gears or more, like the proposed 9-speed units), the CVT is the obvious answer......if or when they can take the torque, which sometimes limits them to smaller engines.

The last 2-speed automatics I can remember were the awful Chevy Powerglide from the 1960's (also used in some early/mid-60's Buick/Olds compacts), and its even worse cousin Torque-Drive, which used a column-shifter and was a semi-automatic (you shifted manually, without a clutch pedal, from low to high at 45 MPH or under, and it sometimes clunked as it shifted). Chevy had the gall to offer these even in early Camaros. I sure don't think today's automakers would condone something like that...for instance, could you just imagine Bob Lutz's reaction if GM were still using something like that today? You'd see heads rolling.

(just for the record...the Dodge Neon used a 3-speed up to a few years ago, when the Caliber replaced it. It was the last car sold in the American market I know of to do so).

madoka

That's what I find so shocking. Including incentives, one can buy a Infiniti FX35 with nav, dual DVD in rear, and premium quilted leather throughout for about $41K right now. If you don't NEED to transport 7 people or a lot of stuff, the Sienna (and the Odyssey) look like bad values. If you only have 1-2 kids, then I think a luxury SUV is surprisingly a better value than the top minivans.

mmarshall

The Town and Country does indeed have a nice ride (by minivan standards) but that's not the main reason it sells so well. The Chrysler/Dodge minivans, despite their often poor or spotty reliability, have a long-held reputation, going back decades, for offering a lot of van and features for the money. They also brought out several minivan firsts like built-in, fold-down DOT-approved child seats, Stow-and-Go fold-under second-row seats as well as the third-row, and, (discounting the rear-engine, air-cooled VW Microbus of 20-30 years earlier) the minivan itself.

madoka

From the Car and Driver comparison test of the previous gen minivans:

The Sienna comes in second place:

"Less satisfying are the generally aloof responses of the controls. The brakes feel wooden, and stops were long at 201 feet. The steering lacks sharpness. What you get instead of confident handling is a soft, quiet ride that makes the others seem a bit rude."

"Mom said the third-row shoulder belts will dig into youngsters' necks, and the floaty ride motions back there could cause bouts of carsickness. Oh, dear."

The Odyssey comes in first place:

"This Honda has all the competitors covered when it comes to driver confidence. It feels purposeful, motivated, even athletic in a way the others do not. The steering knows where straight ahead is, and carving away from that heading always feels precise. The Odyssey's driving position is one of the best in the business. The dash has large dials with bold markings. The column has tilting and telescoping adjustments. The driver's seat is easily the most comfortable of the group."

ilv1004s

iTrader: (8)

oh man u guys in the US get some ugly hondas lol
in australia we get the JDM versions

TRDFantasy

Really? Show me the specific links from odyclub.com that shows what I say is completely at odds of owners.

Here is a thread I found about front end clunking on the 3rd-gen Odyssey. The person who started the topic mentioned the clunking occuring any time the suspension is loaded or unloaded. That is similar to what I experienced with shuddering/rattling in the Odyssey I drove.

The thread talks about bad front bearings, loose subframe connector bolts, and bad struts, loose/bad sway bar links, entire front strut assemblies being replaced and bad motor mounts. The bad motor mount issue is common on a few other Honda vehicles as well.

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showth...threadid=32088

Here is another thread of a person talking about bad rear shocks:

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showth...=&pagenumber=2

Here is a professional review talking about vibration during driving:

http://www.automotive.com/2006/43/ho...ons/index.html

Of all places, you put a link up from a Honda and Driver comparison test? C&D has no credibility as they universally and unanimously love all Honda vehicles. I don't think I remember the last time C&D didn't like a Honda vehicle, if ever.

LeX2K

Almost every Honda reviewed by C&D comes in 1st place, they have loved basically every Honda model for the last 25 years.

mmarshall

Come on. Carsickness from the Sienna's suspension? As far as I'm concerned, that's nonsense. First, the Sienna would not sell in the numbers it does (and did) if you had to take Dramamine every time you rode in it. Second, as a former airplane pilot, I'm familiar with turbulence, thermals, G-forces, and what (can) cause real motion sickness.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

What's similar about them is that they all do not revolve around super soft/isolated ride. Toyota's way isn't always the right way. If the tuning was so bad then Honda's sales number would be lower than that of Kia. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean something is wrong. Many people and myself have driven those vehicles and have the opposite opinion on the ride so what does that say? Don't claim Honda's suspension tuning is 'wrong' based on your own opinion. If you're going to claim such a thing, then back it up with some factual data. I doubt even MMarshall, who loves soft suspension would even dare to call Honda's ride quality bouncy.

Yes because it makes sense to combine two sales figure (Caravan and T&C) to compare to a single vehicle (Odyssey). Let's not forget that Chrysler and Dodge love to sell their cars in fleet. Mind you for year 2009, the T&C has a fleet rate of 17.7% and the Caravan was at 43.2%. The Odyssey? 2.5%. In comparison, the Sienna was at 19.9%.

Pulled from the 2009 Year End sale thread:

23. Honda Odyssey: 100,133
28. Dodge Caravan: 90,666
33. Chrysler Town & Country: 84,558


Most reviews have it that the Odyssey is more controlled than the Sienna. I think you're the only one who considers it 'nervous'. If the subframe is rattling then the van you drove had issue. It is not suppose to do that. Go to the Odyssey forum and search for "subframe rattle' and tell me how many threads you get. There is no issue at all with the subframe. You got to stop passing your single experience as facts. Go and call out an Odyssey owner on here and tell him/her that their van is bouncy with a rattling subframe. I can tell you what they're thinking already ---->

Just because it rides firmer does not make it unsettling. The suspension does what it's suppose to do. It rebounds only once over a bump and that's it. Bouncy would be a 1992 Toyota Camry with blown shocks.


I expect Honda to retain the same ride quality in the 2011+ Odyssey because it's a good compromise for those who do not want uber spongy/floaty ride, but do not want rock stiff either. It's not a wrong method contrary to what some people have said, just different strokes for different folks. Now if the new Odyssey had a ride quality comparable to UHaul truck, then you might have a point, but it does not.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I agree they are exaggerating too much on the softness. It is soft, but not enough to make you vomit left and right. These car magazines are way over their head, which is probably why I stopped subscribing to any of them.

No 'new' car would make you throw up unless it's so poorly designed. We had a 1985 Dodge Caravan once with all blown shocks. Everytime you accelerate, the rear end would squat and the passengers would want to vomit. No one wanted to ride in the rear anymore