First Drive: 2011 Honda Odyssey
#121
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I give it one more generation before these vans hits high-40s. As time goes on, we throw in more airbags, cup holders, bigger entertainment screens, ottomans, computers, etc. No way the manufacturers would want to pay the difference for all these features so yes, I think it will eventually hit 50k. What's sad is that we aren't even talking about luxury brands.
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#122
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I give it one more generation before these vans hits high-40s. As time goes on, we throw in more airbags, cup holders, bigger entertainment screens, ottomans, computers, etc. No way the manufacturers would want to pay the difference for all these features so yes, I think it will eventually hit 50k. What's sad is that we aren't even talking about luxury brands.![EEK!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/eek1.gif)
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#124
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What's similar about them is that they all do not revolve around super soft/isolated ride. Toyota's way isn't always the right way. If the tuning was so bad then Honda's sales number would be lower than that of Kia. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean something is wrong. Many people and myself have driven those vehicles and have the opposite opinion on the ride so what does that say? Don't claim Honda's suspension tuning is 'wrong' based on your own opinion. If you're going to claim such a thing, then back it up with some factual data. I doubt even MMarshall, who loves soft suspension would even dare to call Honda's ride quality bouncy.
Your argument goes both ways. Honda sales still pale in comparison to GM, Ford, and Toyota. Hyundai/Kia is catching up to Honda fast, and Nissan is also improving. Also lets not forget Chrysler. Honda could easily end up being the #4 or #5 automaker in the US in a few years.
Despite the big problems Toyota had early this year, Honda sales did not benefit whatsoever. It is clear that Honda is most directly competing right now with Hyundai and Nissan, not Toyota.
Yes because it makes sense to combine two sales figure (Caravan and T&C) to compare to a single vehicle (Odyssey).
Let's not forget that Chrysler and Dodge love to sell their cars in fleet. Mind you for year 2009, the T&C has a fleet rate of 17.7% and the Caravan was at 43.2%. The Odyssey? 2.5%. In comparison, the Sienna was at 19.9%.
Pulled from the 2009 Year End sale thread:
23. Honda Odyssey: 100,133
28. Dodge Caravan: 90,666
33. Chrysler Town & Country: 84,558
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Pulled from the 2009 Year End sale thread:
23. Honda Odyssey: 100,133
28. Dodge Caravan: 90,666
33. Chrysler Town & Country: 84,558
Most reviews have it that the Odyssey is more controlled than the Sienna. I think you're the only one who considers it 'nervous'. If the subframe is rattling then the van you drove had issue. It is not suppose to do that. Go to the Odyssey forum and search for "subframe rattle' and tell me how many threads you get. There is no issue at all with the subframe. You got to stop passing your single experience as facts. Go and call out an Odyssey owner on here and tell him/her that their van is bouncy with a rattling subframe. I can tell you what they're thinking already ---->![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
Just because it rides firmer does not make it unsettling. The suspension does what it's suppose to do. It rebounds only once over a bump and that's it. Bouncy would be a 1992 Toyota Camry with blown shocks.
I expect Honda to retain the same ride quality in the 2011+ Odyssey because it's a good compromise for those who do not want uber spongy/floaty ride, but do not want rock stiff either. It's not a wrong method contrary to what some people have said, just different strokes for different folks. Now if the new Odyssey had a ride quality comparable to UHaul truck, then you might have a point, but it does not.
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Just because it rides firmer does not make it unsettling. The suspension does what it's suppose to do. It rebounds only once over a bump and that's it. Bouncy would be a 1992 Toyota Camry with blown shocks.
I expect Honda to retain the same ride quality in the 2011+ Odyssey because it's a good compromise for those who do not want uber spongy/floaty ride, but do not want rock stiff either. It's not a wrong method contrary to what some people have said, just different strokes for different folks. Now if the new Odyssey had a ride quality comparable to UHaul truck, then you might have a point, but it does not.
Whether it should or shouldn't do that is irrelevant if a group of Odyssey owners have experienced shuddering or clunking when the suspension is loaded or unloaded. Who's fault is it if some Odysseys are not driving the way they should? It's strictly Honda's fault if their own new vehicles don't perform properly to specifications. That thread shows some people did have subframe/front assembly or subframe-related problems.
Most reviews have mentioned the Sienna as having a more refined and comfortable ride, so what's your point? You take some, you give some. While the Odyssey might have a more controlled ride than a non-SE Sienna, the trade off is less refinement and comfort, particularly over rough roads, potholes, and highway joints.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 09-18-10 at 10:26 PM.
#125
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I'm a Toyota guy at heart, but when shopping for a new van in 2008 the Sienna did not overwhelm me. Ultimately, I preferred the more athletic ride and aggressive looks of the Odyssey.
Now that I've seen the new Odyssey, I will be keeping my '08.
If I were buying a van now, I would probably get the Sienna.
Now that I've seen the new Odyssey, I will be keeping my '08.
If I were buying a van now, I would probably get the Sienna.
#126
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Behind the Wheel
Toyota has changed its approach to ride quality in the Sienna compared to the other family-oriented vehicles in its product lineup. It doesn't float down the highway and instead stays settled on the road, and the result inspires far more confidence. But don't get us wrong, there's still a huge emphasis on comfort, something we found agreeable except when rolling across the sort of choppy concrete slabs you find on overused freeways, especially here in California. Despite its long wheelbase, the Sienna's ride is too busy over such surfaces.
For all the Sienna's newfound emphasis on driving dynamics, the Honda Odyssey remains the leader when it comes to the way a minivan should drive. Though the Odyssey is massive, it still drives like a car in a way that no other manufacturer can achieve. There's a sublime balance between comfort and just enough control to feel safe and reassured. Honda has nailed the subtleties."
And in choosing between the Sienna and the Odyssey, this is what Ask Cars had to say:
"With that being said, we picked the Honda Odyssey as our Family Car of the Year for 2007, as explained below:
“The Odyssey is one of the highest-ranking of Cars.com's Best Bet models, exhibiting good to excellent performance in many areas: reliability history, crash tests, quality, drivability, refinement and resale value. It has all the important safety and convenience features of its competitors, some of which Honda invented. Power doors that reverse at the slightest obstruction and an optional rearview camera make the Odyssey as kid-friendly as any car you'll find.
“What puts the Odyssey over the top is engine technology that gives it the best gas mileage for long family trips, even in a model loaded with options like a video entertainment system. Within the driver's reach are every necessary control and the most ergonomic touch-screen navigation option sold.
“Starting with its large, bright headlights, this is a meticulously well-thought-out van. The Odyssey is simply one of the best-executed vehicles of any type that we've ever driven.”
And in a 3 way comparison review between the Sienna, Dodge and the Odyssey:
"So far, all seems wonderful with the Toyota. But it falls apart—for me at least—in the handling department. It is much more softly sprung than the others. In turns it leans readily and understeers with a passion. I’m aware that minivans tend to be driven very casually, but I found the sponginess of the Toyota’s suspension unsettling. Very light steering also doesn’t help. I don’t mean to suggest that the Sienna is unsafe—I don’t think it would easily roll. But I simply did not feel confident driving it.
The Dodge was fitted with a “touring suspension.” It was the firmest of the trio, with much heavier steering than the others. Usually this would appeal to me, and as before I did find the Dodge easy to drive. But the steering was too heavy, and the heaviness was not simply the price for great feedback, as their was no more than in the others.
The firmness of the Honda’s suspension and the weight of its steering falls between the other two. It is the easiest and most confidence-inspiring to drive. "
Argue all you want, but I believe that's now four to your fat nothing.
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#127
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This proves what exactly? That auto writers and journalists like Hondas? Because handling and a stiff suspension are high priorities for a minivan, right, that totally makes sense
.
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#129
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Thanks for putting up the 2009 data, but we are in 2010 now and I specifically mentioned 2010 sales. The fact is the Town & Country is the top-selling minivan in 2010 so far in terms of overall sales. If you meant to specifically talk about only retail sales, you should have mentioned that.
Look at my above reply to madoka, and look at the front end clunking thread I posted from odyclub.com.
Whether it should or shouldn't do that is irrelevant if a group of Odyssey owners have experienced shuddering or clunking when the suspension is loaded or unloaded. Who's fault is it if some Odysseys are not driving the way they should? It's strictly Honda's fault if their own new vehicles don't perform properly to specifications. That thread shows some people did have subframe/front assembly or subframe-related problems.
Whether it should or shouldn't do that is irrelevant if a group of Odyssey owners have experienced shuddering or clunking when the suspension is loaded or unloaded. Who's fault is it if some Odysseys are not driving the way they should? It's strictly Honda's fault if their own new vehicles don't perform properly to specifications. That thread shows some people did have subframe/front assembly or subframe-related problems.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Most reviews have mentioned the Sienna as having a more refined and comfortable ride, so what's your point? You take some, you give some. While the Odyssey might have a more controlled ride than a non-SE Sienna, the trade off is less refinement and comfort, particularly over rough roads, potholes, and highway joints.
Like I said, if the ride wasn't good then Honda wouldn't be able to sell these at all. The fact that it's an expensive vehicle and the best seller for years (retail) tells us many find the ride acceptable.
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Last edited by GSteg; 09-19-10 at 10:29 PM.
#131
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but seriously folks... about minivan costs... ya know, steel is expensive and those minivans use a LOT of it. and doing those dual sliding doors (that are now motorized) isn't as easy as regular doors, and minivans probably have a bajillion miles of wiring in them too, not to mention enough airbags to catch satellites falling out of space... it all adds up.
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