View Poll Results: Do you agree?
Yes, todays market is horrible for hybrids
5
13.16%
No, I disagree its other factors/hybrids are doing fine
21
55.26%
I hate hybrids, burn them all
4
10.53%
I hate hybrids, I hate 1SICKLEX, he has hybrids=HATE HATE HATE HATE
8
21.05%
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Ford VP: "You can't sell a hybrid in today's market"
09-19-10, 12:59 PM
#1
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Ford VP: "You can't sell a hybrid in today's market"
http://www.autonews.com/article/2010...9942/1186/blog
While it might sound shocking his reasoning is simple and solid.
While it might sound shocking his reasoning is simple and solid.
WASHINGTON -- I was talking gas prices with Ford's Jim Farley on the roof of a Washington, D.C., museum earlier this week when I nearly fell off.
Farley, Ford's group vice president of global marketing, sales and service, shocked me when he said: “You can't sell a hybrid in today's market.”
The statement on its own isn't shocking.
But we were on that roof for the media introduction of the 2011 Lincoln MKZ hybrid sedan. The luxury car goes on sale this fall.
Farley's frank assessment of the hybrid market was refreshingly honest.
He believes gas prices will level off over the next six months. That's not good for hybrid sales.
It's already having an impact. August sales of the Honda Insight fell 52 percent to 2,030 compared to a year ago. Demand for the Toyota Prius tumbled 38 percent last month to 11,799 units. And the MKZ hybrid's competitor, the Lexus HS sedan, posted sales of just 594 units in August compared to 543 in August 2009. It was a tough month to measure hybrid demand, for sure -- a year ago, hybrids fared well under the government's Cash-for-Clunkers program.
But year-to-date demand for the Insight and Prius is down or flat, in an overall light vehicle market that is up 8 percent ths year.
When I reminded Farley he's about to launch a hybrid, he calmly acknowledged that Ford doesn't expect to sell 10,000 or so MKZ hybrids -- even though Lincoln won't charge a premium for the sedan's gas-electric powertrain either. Ford is launching the car because it's the smart thing to do and it rounds out the product lineup, he said.
Clearly, Ford and its chief marketer mean it when they say they aren't just chasing market share anymore, they to want to establish a 'green' image as well.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2010...#ixzz100W4fyzz
Farley, Ford's group vice president of global marketing, sales and service, shocked me when he said: “You can't sell a hybrid in today's market.”
The statement on its own isn't shocking.
But we were on that roof for the media introduction of the 2011 Lincoln MKZ hybrid sedan. The luxury car goes on sale this fall.
Farley's frank assessment of the hybrid market was refreshingly honest.
He believes gas prices will level off over the next six months. That's not good for hybrid sales.
It's already having an impact. August sales of the Honda Insight fell 52 percent to 2,030 compared to a year ago. Demand for the Toyota Prius tumbled 38 percent last month to 11,799 units. And the MKZ hybrid's competitor, the Lexus HS sedan, posted sales of just 594 units in August compared to 543 in August 2009. It was a tough month to measure hybrid demand, for sure -- a year ago, hybrids fared well under the government's Cash-for-Clunkers program.
But year-to-date demand for the Insight and Prius is down or flat, in an overall light vehicle market that is up 8 percent ths year.
When I reminded Farley he's about to launch a hybrid, he calmly acknowledged that Ford doesn't expect to sell 10,000 or so MKZ hybrids -- even though Lincoln won't charge a premium for the sedan's gas-electric powertrain either. Ford is launching the car because it's the smart thing to do and it rounds out the product lineup, he said.
Clearly, Ford and its chief marketer mean it when they say they aren't just chasing market share anymore, they to want to establish a 'green' image as well.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2010...#ixzz100W4fyzz
09-19-10, 01:07 PM
#2
Good read. I agree it's hard to sell a hybrid let alone a car in this market without incentives right now. And good answer saying that despite the MKZ hybrid coming to market, they know that it'll be profitable when the time is right which is unpredictable.
09-19-10, 01:42 PM
#3
Hybrids are too expensive. People who want hybrids want them to be cheaper than petrol only models, and to provide mpg advantage. The Prius sells a lot to fleets - most NYC govt agencies have Priuses as their fleet vehicles, otherwise its sales would be far worse.
Toyota, and everyone else, should stop wasting their time on hybrids, diesels, etc - and instead concentrate on making V8 coupes
Toyota, and everyone else, should stop wasting their time on hybrids, diesels, etc - and instead concentrate on making V8 coupes
09-19-10, 02:29 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
bring down the price, and it will sell better.
the typical hybrid costs $2500-3000 more than a comparable gas model, after tax credits.
basic calculation-
4banger makes 30 mpg.
nonprius hybrid makes 38mpg.
at a price of $3.30 per gal, and driving 100k miles, the hybrid saves ~700 gallons of gas,
which comes out to $2300.
you've just about broken even after 100k miles.
for many people, it just doesn't make cents.
the typical hybrid costs $2500-3000 more than a comparable gas model, after tax credits.
basic calculation-
4banger makes 30 mpg.
nonprius hybrid makes 38mpg.
at a price of $3.30 per gal, and driving 100k miles, the hybrid saves ~700 gallons of gas,
which comes out to $2300.
you've just about broken even after 100k miles.
for many people, it just doesn't make cents.
09-19-10, 05:22 PM
#7
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I disagree, not sure what Farley was thinking when he said that.
Clearly, there are other factors involved here. Some hybrids ARE selling well. It's silly to point out the HS struggling or the Insight being a fail product. What about hybrids like the RX hybrid or Camry hybrid? Last time I checked, those were selling fairly well in the context of competition.
The fact is most hybrids on the market are either too expensive, too slow, or don't provide enough fuel economy benefits. Some hybrids on the market are even all three.
Some Prius sales do go to fleets, but it is not a significant percentage.
Clearly, there are other factors involved here. Some hybrids ARE selling well. It's silly to point out the HS struggling or the Insight being a fail product. What about hybrids like the RX hybrid or Camry hybrid? Last time I checked, those were selling fairly well in the context of competition.
The fact is most hybrids on the market are either too expensive, too slow, or don't provide enough fuel economy benefits. Some hybrids on the market are even all three.
Hybrids are too expensive. People who want hybrids want them to be cheaper than petrol only models, and to provide mpg advantage. The Prius sells a lot to fleets - most NYC govt agencies have Priuses as their fleet vehicles, otherwise its sales would be far worse.
Toyota, and everyone else, should stop wasting their time on hybrids, diesels, etc - and instead concentrate on making V8 coupes
Toyota, and everyone else, should stop wasting their time on hybrids, diesels, etc - and instead concentrate on making V8 coupes
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09-19-10, 05:52 PM
#9
I think he made some good observations along with a touch of looking for so extra media attention 
I think introducing the MKZ Hybrid and other hybrids (CT200h etc) is a good move to introduce at this point even if the market is a little soft. To me a car company needs to have products on the market that will allow it to continue to sell units as the market changes. So if the price of gas sky rockets I would think it would be alot easier to crank up production of an existing model to fill in a gap/need as opposed to designing and rolling out a new model a little late to the game.
I think introducing the MKZ Hybrid and other hybrids (CT200h etc) is a good move to introduce at this point even if the market is a little soft. To me a car company needs to have products on the market that will allow it to continue to sell units as the market changes. So if the price of gas sky rockets I would think it would be alot easier to crank up production of an existing model to fill in a gap/need as opposed to designing and rolling out a new model a little late to the game.
09-19-10, 08:06 PM
#10
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It's partly true. Yeah, $2.50/gal isn't helping the hybrid argument but hybrids are obviously still selling.
Basically, it comes down to making the hybrid compelling enough. The Prius is the epitome of that idea. The Prius' success is directly the result of pushing the envelope on fuel efficiency by designing the car in every way to serve this purpose while remaining practical. A half assed effort like the Insight doesn't work. And hybrid versions of regular cars need to be a significant difference - such as the Fusion. The Accord hybrid, for example, was a joke. Hybrid versions should improve fuel efficiency by at least 25% or it makes little sense.
Basically, it comes down to making the hybrid compelling enough. The Prius is the epitome of that idea. The Prius' success is directly the result of pushing the envelope on fuel efficiency by designing the car in every way to serve this purpose while remaining practical. A half assed effort like the Insight doesn't work. And hybrid versions of regular cars need to be a significant difference - such as the Fusion. The Accord hybrid, for example, was a joke. Hybrid versions should improve fuel efficiency by at least 25% or it makes little sense.
09-19-10, 08:36 PM
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True, also I will add hybrids that sell poorly don't sell to fleets or retail consumers. The Prius is such a leader in the hybrid market that both consumers and fleets still buy it in big numbers compared to any other hybrid, even with gas prices being fairly low right now.
09-19-10, 08:42 PM
#12
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09-19-10, 09:00 PM
#13
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hybrids have never made sense economically for the same kind of vehicle, so someone who buys them is either bad at math 
or just feels good using less gas.
sure if you do a daily commute into town in a hummer and switch to a prius you're going to save money, but you'd likely save more money if you just bought a non-hybrid econobox because the vehicle is thousands cheaper.
or just feels good using less gas.sure if you do a daily commute into town in a hummer and switch to a prius you're going to save money, but you'd likely save more money if you just bought a non-hybrid econobox because the vehicle is thousands cheaper.
09-19-10, 09:03 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
bring down the price, and it will sell better.
the typical hybrid costs $2500-3000 more than a comparable gas model, after tax credits.
basic calculation-
4banger makes 30 mpg.
nonprius hybrid makes 38mpg.
at a price of $3.30 per gal, and driving 100k miles, the hybrid saves ~700 gallons of gas,
which comes out to $2300.
you've just about broken even after 100k miles.
for many people, it just doesn't make cents.
the typical hybrid costs $2500-3000 more than a comparable gas model, after tax credits.
basic calculation-
4banger makes 30 mpg.
nonprius hybrid makes 38mpg.
at a price of $3.30 per gal, and driving 100k miles, the hybrid saves ~700 gallons of gas,
which comes out to $2300.
you've just about broken even after 100k miles.
for many people, it just doesn't make cents.
Correct and at around or after a 100K miles you may be looking at a very expensive hybrid battery replacement too which will kill any amount of savings you had in gas mileage from spending the extra to get a hybrid.
When you have to pay thousands extra for hybrids they just don't make sense if buyers are trying to save money even if it is a little cheaper every to fuel a hybrid. They are better off just keeping their older vehicle for longer and driving less. If they have to get a new car, go for the least expensive model which is usually a regular 4 cylinder, don't load the car up with expensive options, and don't drive as much. They will save much more money in the short/long run then spending thousands extra on a hybrid just to save a little on gas.
09-19-10, 09:38 PM
#15
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Its amazing to see people continue to simplify "all" hybrids with the "oh its not worth it" banter. Is a 100% gasoline engine "worth it"? Diesel? Electric? Shouldn't we all then walk and/or take public transit? Is a 4 door worth it over a 2 door? Does a SUV make sense over a sedan? Does a V-8 make sense over a V-6 if only only speed so often? Does an exotic car make sense if you can never fully use their capabilities on public roads?
If you look at hybrids with the singular viewpoint of "gas savings" then you miss out on the other positive aspects of hybrids as well as mostly assume gas stays flat. The "oh the battery will die and be expensive at 100k" is simply another hybrid myth as there hasn't been any data to show its a huge problem. If it was we would have easily heard of it by now.
I think the VP has a legit point as its one I've stated many times. With gas stable at under $3 people would rather buy guzzlers or not worry about MPG let alone hybrids. We have seen the stats show SUV sales are back up.
I also agree with JPL that the hybrid needs to make a compelling argument and in most cases it seems they really need to get most of the marks right, otherwise they will fail (Durango hybrid, Insight, HS, etc).
In my opinion people are so ignorant towards hybrids they don't even give any a chance, instead relying on idiotic viewpoints and/or data mixed with anti-hybrid opinions. I still get asked "where do you plug it in"
in 2010. Hybrids have been out nearly 15 years now.
Most will bet gas prices will rise and those companies investing in hyrbids/electrics etc today will benefit tomorrow.
If you look at hybrids with the singular viewpoint of "gas savings" then you miss out on the other positive aspects of hybrids as well as mostly assume gas stays flat. The "oh the battery will die and be expensive at 100k" is simply another hybrid myth as there hasn't been any data to show its a huge problem. If it was we would have easily heard of it by now.
I think the VP has a legit point as its one I've stated many times. With gas stable at under $3 people would rather buy guzzlers or not worry about MPG let alone hybrids. We have seen the stats show SUV sales are back up.
I also agree with JPL that the hybrid needs to make a compelling argument and in most cases it seems they really need to get most of the marks right, otherwise they will fail (Durango hybrid, Insight, HS, etc).
In my opinion people are so ignorant towards hybrids they don't even give any a chance, instead relying on idiotic viewpoints and/or data mixed with anti-hybrid opinions. I still get asked "where do you plug it in"
in 2010. Hybrids have been out nearly 15 years now. Most will bet gas prices will rise and those companies investing in hyrbids/electrics etc today will benefit tomorrow.