Acura will push for luxury credentials -- without V-8, rwd
09-29-10, 11:20 AM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
Actually, in Acura's case, I'm not sure if it's a case of wannabe so much as it is simply not willing to be. I personally don't see a need for big V8s, RWD, and 6 or 7-speed automatics, but, looking over and above my personal opinion (contrary to what some think, I don't live in a cocoon-world, and can see other views as well) the luxury-car market seems to be going that way, especially in the Tier-1 category. However, Acura DOES have one good thing going for it in that field. AWD is becoming, more and more, a feature to be expected in luxuty cars, at least as an option if not standard. Acura, along with Audi and Subaru, has one of the best AWD systems on the market, though, of course, Subaru is not a luxury/premium brand.
09-29-10, 11:37 AM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
Actually, in Acura's case, I'm not sure if it's a case of wannabe so much as it is simply not willing to be. I personally don't see a need for big V8s, RWD, and 6 or 7-speed automatics, but, looking over and above my personal opinion (contrary to what some think, I don't live in a cocoon-world, and can see other views as well) the luxury-car market seems to be going that way, especially in the Tier-1 category. However, Acura DOES have one good thing going for it in that field. AWD is becoming, more and more, a feature to be expected in luxuty cars, at least as an option if not standard. .
Yes, they offer AWD like best lux brands, but the unwillingness or slow to offer: any V8 (not just big V8's), DOHC V6's, 6/7/8/9 speed advanced auto trannys, DI with high compression, a balanced RWD chassis, class-leading performance, class-leading fuel efficiency, tasteful styling are the reasons for the struggle to get into the same league.
So they try to talk their way in instead of delivering the superior products, it's not working.
Last edited by IS-SV; 09-29-10 at 12:24 PM.
09-29-10, 11:37 AM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, I made that clear in post #45. perhaps you did not see it.
Basically, what it does is vector torque to the inside/outside wheels depending on cornering forces. It works to control understeer/oversteer, similiar to the manner of ESP (stability control), except that instead of braking an individual inside or outside wheel with yaw-sensors and the traction/anti-lock brake system like ESP does, it instead uses sophisticated electronic differentials to vector torque split. And, of course, the ESP/traction systems are also there to back it up if needed.
I know, SH-AWD might be a silly name, but the technology behind it is actually quite amazing.
09-29-10, 11:40 AM
#51
Acura's SH-AWD is completely different, and much superior. It is of course also a lot more complex, and will be more expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.
09-29-10, 11:45 AM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Mike, as far as I know, both Audi, and Subaru, and even Toyota, as well as many other makers, simply use Torsen differentials in their AWD systems. The company that makes Torsen differential actually belongs to Toyoda Machine Works (possibly a Toyota's daughter company?)
Acura's SH-AWD is completely different, and much superior. It is of course also a lot more complex, and will be more expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.
Acura's SH-AWD is completely different, and much superior. It is of course also a lot more complex, and will be more expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.
09-29-10, 11:48 AM
#53
Yes, I made that clear in post #45. perhaps you did not see it.
Basically, what it does is vector torque to the inside/outside wheels depending on cornering forces. It works to control understeer/oversteer, similiar to the manner of ESP (stability control), except that instead of braking an individual inside or outside wheel with yaw-sensors and the traction/anti-lock brake system like ESP does, it instead uses sophisticated electronic differentials to vector torque split. And, of course, the ESP/traction systems are also there to back it up if needed.
Basically, what it does is vector torque to the inside/outside wheels depending on cornering forces. It works to control understeer/oversteer, similiar to the manner of ESP (stability control), except that instead of braking an individual inside or outside wheel with yaw-sensors and the traction/anti-lock brake system like ESP does, it instead uses sophisticated electronic differentials to vector torque split. And, of course, the ESP/traction systems are also there to back it up if needed.
I believe Nissan was actually the first one to introduce such system in their Skyline, and continued it in the GTR. I remember watching a documentary about the old Skyline, with the dashboard display showing how much torque is being sent to which wheel. Of course, unlike Acura, Nissan doesn't hype their system, and just lets Acura take all the credit.
09-29-10, 12:01 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
However that didn't happen. What we do know is the TL sold around half the 70,000 goal. There is no demand for it, thus dealers having to offer cash and discounts to sell the car and give more money for trades to sell the car. You can easily google around and see getting the car for thousands off MSRP is as simple as asking. (won't go into leasing since that is factory backed).
The plan was for Acura to price their cars higher (which they did) and keep volumes around the same. That didn't happen at all.
The ZDX sales goal was 6,000k a year. They might half that, 3,000k. The RDX goal was 20,000k. They hit around 14k. The RL had a 20k sales goal which they never reached. I assume TSX, MDX were close to hitting goals.
Not meeting sales goals=no demand=dealers doing what it takes to sell the car=less profit for dealesr, even possible losses as inventory is high.
(Acura is not the only brand with this issue, its any car that fails to meet sales goals)
Mike, as far as I know, both Audi, and Subaru, and even Toyota, as well as many other makers, simply use Torsen differentials in their AWD systems. The company that makes Torsen differential actually belongs to Toyoda Machine Works (possibly a Toyota's daughter company?)
Acura's SH-AWD is completely different, and much superior. It is of course also a lot more complex, and will be more expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.
Acura's SH-AWD is completely different, and much superior. It is of course also a lot more complex, and will be more expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.
They put it in SUVs and average powered cars. The name is also ricerish and lacks panache (really SUPER handling AWD, that is the best Marketing could do
).Today Acura no longer just offers torque vectoring. Audi, Porsche, BMW have it and others will to. The advantage is lost. It is still a fantastic system but damn they could have done wonders with it.
I said it a looooong time ago, SH AWD needed a high HP sports car to really showcase its abilities. Initially putting it in a slow RL then SUVs didn't do the system justice.
If they had the ***** to produce the NSX, even if it was front engined, with SHAWD there is no doubt in my mind that damn car would have been a MISSLE on the track mixing both LFA and GTR attributes (V-10/AWD). It would have really shown how badass the system is.
09-29-10, 12:24 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Part of the NSX's advantage under those conditions, Mike, would be not just the SH-AWD system, but its lightweight aluminum frame and structure. In this, it emulates, to some extent, Lotus products.
09-29-10, 12:29 PM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
It helps with weight but it is not as light or strong as Carbon Fiber.
09-29-10, 12:42 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, I was refering to the old one....if SH-AWD had been (or could have been) fitted to it. The (supposedly) new NSX, after constant rumors and changes/postponements, was never released....so we don't really know for sure what would have finally and officially gone into it, structure or drivetrain.
