shyguy16

sounds like you won't buy a manual because you are really bad at driving manual. lugging? overrevving? those are rookie careless mistakes.

and when was driving a stick about being able to shift fast?
driving stick is about a feel that can't be replicated by any auto, DSG included.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Or people that assume any manual is a good one.

We got rid of cranks to turn engines, we got rid of chokes to start them, and we've developed more efficient methods for keeping them within their powerband.

I agree, some are fun, but not any more than various other aspects of a car. Not to contradict for the sake of doing so, but in all honesty, I don't miss the manual from my 7 at all, when I shift the F to manual control, and make gear changes through the paddles. I'd transplant the F gearbox into my 7 any day, if I could.

IMO, manual gearboxes are overrated so far as fun goes, and many people overestimate their driving ability, based on some idea that being able to drive manual, thusly makes them a good driver. I've had considerably more fun learning vehicle control on a course, as opposed to rowing gears-- to each their own, really.

To be fair, its been synonymous with it for some time now, and we'd be fooling ourselves if shifting quickly and efficiently wasn't one of the reasons enthusiast preferred manuals a decade or two ago when the line wasn't as blurred in performance. At least on the 7 forum, people have been throwing short-throw shifters in their cars for who knows how long, in order to reduce shift times, along with improving feel.


As to the OP and IS350 pitch, it's marketing doing its thing. I wasn't impressed at all with the paddle shift on my previous 350, but the car was enjoyable on the autoX (though not necessarily more-so than other cars I've piloted), while doing nearly everything else it was created for, rather well. Superb car, in and out.

Koz

I agree 100%. The modern autos are WAY to good now to go back to pedal pushing. Every time I line up next to a manual car I think about how he is going to dump the clutch and I can simply mash the gas (all day long) with no drama. The only vehicle that will stay manual is my bike.

Koz

STIG

Being stuck in the traffic feeling. oh man what a feeling.

mmarshall

Some good points. lobuxracer.

And I hope that the IS-F's notably rough ride didn't make your spinal problem any worse. Back problems can be tough to deal with.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Won't buy a manual? It's all I owned for 28 years. I still own one. Interesting you should say this. So I guess my experience roadracing motorcycles where I upshifted and occasionally downshifted without the clutch really makes me bad at driving a manual.

I guess you've never missed a gate on a shift, eh? Absolute perfection on every release of the clutch and never once a slight mismatch on downshift?

Tell you what, if it's all about FEEL, you need to buy a BMW and be happy. They're all about feel. When you decide you want to go fast and be in complete control, join the 21st century and get PDK, SMG, or whatever the manufacturer is calling the automated clutch system. You won't win against it if you're driving against someone of equal skill.

Oh, yeah, my original clutch in my Supra went 106k miles. Clearly I'm an incompetent manual driver...

Ethix

I still don't buy the faster shifts argument when buying a regular car. Yes, it does shift faster and in many cases much faster, but who cares? I don't race my car on the street and even if I took it to a track day it's not like I'd be trying to win anything. The only way it would really be helpful is if I built a race car and then you might need a stronger tranny anyway.

This argument is kind of pointless anyway since manual transmissions will be pretty much extinct in 5-10 years. We'll all just have to get used to pressing buttons and flapping paddles. Hell, maybe we won't even have to steer anymore either. We can just watch as the car drives for us. That'll be awesome!

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

It depends on the person, but the same logic can be applied to pretty much anything regarding cars, including purchasing a luxury vehicle for A to B travel. You can label nearly anything as excess, while stripping away the benefits in pursuit of necessity-- however, its an odd argument to make on a Lexus forum.

Fortunately for auto transmissions, these days, the benefits extend beyond quicker shift speeds. For me, at least, I enjoy the fact that my gearbox can better keep up with my intentions.

I'm sure something similar was stated, when synchro's started seeing application in manual transmissions.

Ethix

I'm not labeling automatic transmissions as excess. For anything other than a sports/sporty car, I'd much rather have an automatic transmission. I just don't like the lack of manual transmission options on sport model cars today.

There are ways of making a manual transmission easier or more fun for the average driver without having to ditch them altogether. Just look at what Nissan is doing with their synchro-rev-match (or whatever it's called) setup they have on the new Z. If you don't want to use it, you can turn it off.

I guess if you're buying a car for daily use, the flappy paddle setup is probably the best of both worlds at the moment. For pure driving entertainment, give me 3 pedals.

mmarshall

Agreed. Not everyone lives or drives in bumper-to-bumper or stop-and go conditions. But, even so, automatic are getting so good these days that fewer and fewer people, even aside from congested driving conditions, desire manuals. An especially good automatic for enthusiasts is the VW/Audi DSG/S-Tronic twin-clutch automated-manual. Combine that with the 2.0T engine and you have a really nice setup.

Unless you really enjoy, or are proficient at, classic heel-and-toe downshifts (and the design of some gas/brake pedals makes a good heel-and-toe difficult), why turn that feature off? It is there for a good reason.....to extend synchro life in the gearbox (synchros can be expensive to replace if the drivetrain warranty is expired). The rev-match feature (some newer automatics also have it) also helps avoid shock to the driveline on some downshifts.

mmarshall

Anything else on the OT.....the IS350?

I hope Lexus announces a firm release date soon for the IS350AWD....rumor is it will be sometime in late October. I have some CL requests for a review. I have not been able to see it or drive it yet..........but I don't expect it to be a whole lot different from the RWD 350 except for a little more weight/drag, slightly different handling characteristics, and, of course, better winter traction. Lexus dealers have the annoying habit (supposedly because of corporate regulation) of not putting new-inventory vehicles on their web site, like with used models and CPOs. So, you usually either have to call in advance, taking the word of some dealer-rep, or physically go see for yourself what is in stock.

92 SC400

I haven't read that much in terms of a comparison between the two aside from the review in Bimmer Mag and IIRC they were on a track so much the difference is more apparent under track driving conditions as opposed to straight line acceleration? I really don't know, but I wouldn't think the N55 would be "worse" than the N54 and I would also expect the tuners to get a lot of the single turbo like they did with the TT setup.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Right, my comment about excess was in reference to the idea that faster shift speeds were unnecessary or overkill. I think it ignores the objective benefits of an auto in nearly all driving situations.

Again, to each their own, though. I still have my manual car because I enjoy driving it, too, but my F will definitely see track time before it.

LexFather

I'm tempted to delete this but why don't you explain what a typical rice rocket is and how exactly the IS 350 F sport package is like one.

Do tell

This thread seems to attract some really off the wall statements.

mmarshall

Mike, I think that, by "rice rocket", he is referring to a Japanese-designed high-performance car........something that, technically, could range from the inexpensive Civic Si all the way to the Lexus LF-A supercar. I agree, though, that it is a somewhat vague and crude term....something I wouldn't use.