LexFather

Henry, DJ I have not forgotten yall. Takes time to compile this info. My point is not to say the GS is some grand seller. My point is it did sell well relatively, 3rd best in class most of the time and we should not say it sold poorly. I've always said the E/5 will never be caught up with. THey dominate this segment.

Now some goodies from a trusted source.

Camry interior" massive improvement"
best in class MPG
10 airbags standard
Toyota has a new tech system said to better Ford's Sync called Intuit
Push button standard
2 hybrids offered for it
Sequoia lives on, internet rumors of demise false

New Prius family
Pruis plug in 13 mile range with no gas
Prius sport coupe coming
Prius van coming

For the first time the Lexus mtg was separate. Next GS and SC shown. Both called absolutely gorgous (not sure what that means till I see it )

Toyota to focus on quality, customer experience, sport and see volume increase with sport, not without it.

LexusMan77

Great info 1SICKLEX. I currently own a 2007 Camry and hearing the next generation's interior will have "massive improvement" is good news. The current interior is disappointing in style and quality. Two hybrids for the Camry? Maybe a high mileage hybrid and a performance hybrid? Also curious about the "Intuit" system and wonder if it is going to be applied across the Toyota line and Lexus.

Hopefully the GS and SC look gorgeous to our eyes. Can't wait to see them.

knihc2008

iTrader: (1)

Great news on all accounts. Really hoping to see not only improvements in the Camry interior but also a more bold design outside. Really hoping Toyota can incorporate more sporty cues and forge a true brand identity for itself with the new Camry. Ford's Sync is money and I'm really glad Toyota is stepping up to the plate with a competitor; I haven't heard of many other car companies trying to compete with the comprehensive gangsterness that is the Sync system.

The GS and the SC... I'll believe it when I see it. Would really like to hear more specifics about the "gorgeousness" of these designs. And when is the SC coming out anyway? Will it be a 6er or a SL competitor?

TRDFantasy

Awesome info, some of which I already knew of . I've heard a few bits about the next-gen Corolla too .

What's news to me is that they showed off the new SC. I didn't expect them to show it to dealers that early.

On a somewhat off-topic but related note, its sad how short-sighted some have become on CL. They ignore history and ignore the reality of the market and you wonder why some here even post on CL.

Starting with the next-gen Camry, all future Toyota and Lexus models should see quite an improvement in virtually all areas. Quality, reliability, fun-to-drive aspect, comfort, technology, safety and so on.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; A Toyoda is once again running the company, and that means the competition should be worried.

Fizzboy7

Great news indeed. Now you REALLY have me aching to see these new models!!! =) The next 4-12 months is going to be HUGE for both companies.

Also surprised a new SC was already shown. I must have missed the post-it slip saying it was officially coming back. If there's one thing on your list I would doubt, it would be that. But I'll trust your source for the hell of it.

New Camry features sound good. I would expect Toyota to do all they need to do to stay ontop. The 2007 model was/is a huge success, showing the company made the right moves and has it in them to do so.

As a footnote, lets all remember with the last 2-3 Toyota redesigns, we were also told the same sporty promise. So, I'll have to believe that when I see it.

TRDFantasy

The current 6th-gen Camry is sportier than the 5th-gen is it not? The current Camry SE is considered one of, if not the best handling midsize sedan in the market.

That's the thing with opinions; everybody has one, but that doesn't mean everybody is right.

People are misinterpreting what Toyota said regarding previous redesigns. With previous redesigns, Toyota promised "more sport" or a sportier drive. Toyota did not break their promise, as with the 6th-gen Camry they delivered a sportier Camry than the 5th-gen model.

Fizzboy7

True. Although when one reads and studies "sport," as far as sedans go, the Camry rarely gets mentioned in the same sentence. But I do agree, this gen is a tad sportier than the last- at least on the outside.

This got me thinking back to what I have read on the SE vs. the competition. Hasn't the Accord ridden sportier than the Camry? I recall some mags posting higher grip numbers with the Accord.

LexFather

I've had time in a Camry SE, it drives pretty damn good. The Accord has gotten bigger and to me is a great comfy family car.

Funny I was going to start a thread on how Ford's Sync system is awesome and Toyota is way behind there. Glad to see them come out with something.

I think the next Camry will preview how all new Toyota's will be in regards to tech and MPG and features and quality. The Camry is the face of the brand so it needs to lead the way.

Hope to get GS/SC info. I do believe the V-8 will be dropped but the GS F is in the pipes. Not certain on this though, sorry

LexFather

Okay here are results. Again my point is the GS did sell well relatively speaking. 2005 was the best selling year for any GS. It was 3rd in sales all the way until 2009.

The 5 and E class dominate this segment, I've said it for years and their sales are nothing short of amazing.

We cannot compare the GS or any other car in this class to those two and say they fail b/c they don't sell as much. They will NEVER sell as much. We have to look at their individual goals and how they do after those first two.

We can conclude the GS did sell well initially and sales have tapered off.

We cannot say the 3GS never sold well, that is not accurate.

The GS will need better lease rates, more engine choices and it must be a better vehicle if it dreams of hitting 50k a year.

GS
2009-7,430
2008-15,759
2007-23,381
2006-27,390
2005-33,357
2004-8,262

5 series
2009-40,109
2008-45,915
2007-54,142
2006-56,756
2005- 52,722
2004- 45,584

E class
2009-43,072 (now includes E class coupe sales)
2008- 38,576
2007-48,950
2006-50,195
2005-50,383
2004-58,954


M35/56
2009-8,501 (first time in 3rd place)

rominl

iTrader: (4)

thanks mike for the numbers, that's great analysis. it does show that the e and 5 are far stronger (in terms of sale) than the gs. their numbers have never dipped under 40 (except 1 yr) throughout their whole generation life, that's huge volume. but looking at the gs, 2gs sold around 8k in its last year (close to), not a bit number, but it's not even last year for 3gs yet and it's already down to 7k. so i think that's one data point. and 3gs sales now is also about 1/6 the sales of 5 and e, that's also another data point.

i agree that the 3gs sales haven't been a fail all along, but it's been weak for a lot of the time, and can see that it drops off fast (this is my concern, it doesn't retain loyalty in some sense). i think, in my eyes, the kind of reputation lexus built up over the years, that they are in the same segment in most analysis eyes, and the fact that they compete so fiercely with each other in terms of overall sales number, put up a good break down here.

lexus wins mostly with the es and rx (nothing wrong with that), but given their sales and if they were to retain a good global image, they have to have strong numbers on IS and GS. they are doing a good job in the LS segment, head to head with the others. i personally don't take the excuse that lexus just can't never catch up with bmw (5) and mb (e) and so their numbers are fine. i think if lexus wants to do it, which i think they should, they should be able to get a lot closer, at least numbers in the same magnitude and also hold the numbers well throughout the generation. that should be the goal and what they drive towards.

with that kind of mindset i have, that's why when i look at 2gs, and then 3gs, i see a step back, or stand still if you want. they aren't moving it in the right direction

TRDFantasy

The Camry is rarely mentioned due to the strong bias that exists. The Camry has always been known for various qualities and strong points, but sport historically was not one of them. This is the first Camry generation (unless you count the 3rd gen Camry manual coupe) that offers a somewhat sporty model.

Some mags like Motortrend have rated the Camry SE above the Accord handling-wise. Not that it really matters, as most mags flip-flop on car ratings and often contradict themselves in comparisons.

Point is, the Camry SE is very competitive in terms of handling with the Accord, Fusion, and Mazda 6.

TRDFantasy

I agree, if Lexus really wanted to, they could make a much better GS.

We all know what can be achieved when Lexus tries really hard . The 1st-gen LS and now the LFA are both examples of what Lexus can achieve when they try hard.

I also agree they dropped the ball on the 3GS. I don't mean to say it's a bad car, but it's not a great or amazing car. I do think the platform was a problem and that there were some issues with the 3GS that could not be easily corrected.

I think Lexus has been focusing very hard on the next-gen GS and it should be a much better effort than the 3GS.

Historically when Lexus drops the ball on a new model or redesign, they come back MUCH stronger with the next-gen model.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

and that, i can't wait to see, and i definitely hope is the case!

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

FWIW, if you guys go back and search some of the first drives and comparos with the Gen 6 Camry SE, it has been downright raved upon in terms of driving dynamics.

I remember Motor Trend noting that it drove like it had been tuned by TRD, and several other quotes of praise from C&D and others.

encore888

Curious about "Intuit", and that push button better be revised for a 3 sec OR 3-press emergency stop. Interior Camry improvement sounds good, hope exterior also.

But of course, want to see this new GS/SC!!! Thanks for the info!!