Lexus U.S. dealer meeting notes - WSJ
10-21-10 | 03:18 AM
#76
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
I've driven the ES and GS plenty of times and its night and day. Sorry.
Also the 3GS had a lot more competition then the 2GS did. S80, M35/45, RL, MKS, XF, A6 are all very good. I think that had A LOT to do with it.
Whereas the 2GS only really had the E and 5 to worry about.
Today the ENTIRE CLASS is rock solid. And to yalls point the "Tweeners" like the ES/G37/CTS/TL all steal sales as they are big like the class above it but priced much lower.
Now even the new S60 and Saab 9-5 are solid tweeners.
Also the 3GS had a lot more competition then the 2GS did. S80, M35/45, RL, MKS, XF, A6 are all very good. I think that had A LOT to do with it.
Whereas the 2GS only really had the E and 5 to worry about.
Today the ENTIRE CLASS is rock solid. And to yalls point the "Tweeners" like the ES/G37/CTS/TL all steal sales as they are big like the class above it but priced much lower.
Now even the new S60 and Saab 9-5 are solid tweeners.
Does a stock 3GS feel much sportier than an ES?
As you mentioned I think that is one factor or problem that was at play here. The ES is very close in size to the GS.
More competition and all these other factors IMHO came down to one question with the 3GS; why buy it? Combined with the fact that Lexus barely updated the 3GS and we can see why sales dropped off since it debuted.
10-21-10 | 04:57 AM
#77
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,966
Likes: 180
i think problem between ES and GS is that ES has a lot more space, and is still luxurious enough and is cheaper.
but i have to admit, i am very happy with my GS... Next version should have bigger trunk and more space at the back.
but i have to admit, i am very happy with my GS... Next version should have bigger trunk and more space at the back.
10-21-10 | 06:54 AM
#78
I tend to agree with TRD. The GS does feel a bit sharper than the ES but it's not to the extent where you would hop out of an ES, drive a GS, and think, "Man!! THIS is a sports sedan!" In fact, I personally think the steering on the ES is better than the GS even if it is a bit more loose.
Like spwolf said, the ES is similar sized, roomier, less expensive, and still luxurious enough for most folks. It's also worth noting that with 275HP, the ES is no longer a slouch and feels very strong.
Combine the two facts above, and you see why it's hard to make a case to buy a GS for $10K more than an ES, to most consumers.
Like spwolf said, the ES is similar sized, roomier, less expensive, and still luxurious enough for most folks. It's also worth noting that with 275HP, the ES is no longer a slouch and feels very strong.
Combine the two facts above, and you see why it's hard to make a case to buy a GS for $10K more than an ES, to most consumers.
10-21-10 | 09:50 AM
#80
I thought the 3GS had a similar disconnected steering feel as the ES, correct me if I'm wrong?
Does a stock 3GS feel much sportier than an ES?
As you mentioned I think that is one factor or problem that was at play here. The ES is very close in size to the GS.
More competition and all these other factors IMHO came down to one question with the 3GS; why buy it? Combined with the fact that Lexus barely updated the 3GS and we can see why sales dropped off since it debuted.
Does a stock 3GS feel much sportier than an ES?
As you mentioned I think that is one factor or problem that was at play here. The ES is very close in size to the GS.
More competition and all these other factors IMHO came down to one question with the 3GS; why buy it? Combined with the fact that Lexus barely updated the 3GS and we can see why sales dropped off since it debuted.
- 3gs is noticeably sportier than the es, more steering feel. however is it goo enough for a sport sedan especially when there is an es already? nop
- es has noticeably more space than the 3gs, both cabin and trunk
10-21-10 | 02:00 PM
#82
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 2
From: Washington
How long has it been since they updated the 3GS though? The ES to me seems like it's brand freakin new. They do this because thats their cream getter. Lexus aint stupid. Update the cars that are doing well. Those that aint can wait. But I think with Toyoda at the helm of things, we'll see a sportier direction, but still feel the lexus quality.
10-21-10 | 03:39 PM
#85
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,765
Likes: 178
From: California
I mentioned a few pages ago one of the biggest problems with the GS was the refresh was too subtle. After three years, I'm still hard-pressed to see the differences on the road. You can't stir up excitment and sales with the same look for six+ years.
Also, the ES was facelifted for 2010, not 2011.
Lastly, on the other hand, companies have not made changes to their best-selling models due to the fact they sell well and it would be wasted money. While that's not the case for the GS, it has happened with other models and at other companies. So, it could go both ways.
Also, the ES was facelifted for 2010, not 2011.
Lastly, on the other hand, companies have not made changes to their best-selling models due to the fact they sell well and it would be wasted money. While that's not the case for the GS, it has happened with other models and at other companies. So, it could go both ways.
10-21-10 | 04:07 PM
#86
I can't wait for 4GS and 3IS, especially what we're in store for the next ISF, what would really separate Lexus from the rest is to go for high performance and efficient F cars, I know Hybrid F is a bit of an oxymoron but it would just be so sweet to get the best of both worlds...hey Porsche can do it.
In terms of the 3GS facelift, I don't understand why they didn't improve tail light design, it could've been a totally different monster if done up like the IS and LS tail light upgrades.
In terms of the 3GS facelift, I don't understand why they didn't improve tail light design, it could've been a totally different monster if done up like the IS and LS tail light upgrades.
10-21-10 | 04:28 PM
#87
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,765
Likes: 178
From: California
I can't wait for 4GS and 3IS, especially what we're in store for the next ISF, what would really separate Lexus from the rest is to go for high performance and efficient F cars, I know Hybrid F is a bit of an oxymoron but it would just be so sweet to get the best of both worlds...hey Porsche can do it.
In terms of the 3GS facelift, I don't understand why they didn't improve tail light design, it could've been a totally different monster if done up like the IS and LS tail light upgrades.
In terms of the 3GS facelift, I don't understand why they didn't improve tail light design, it could've been a totally different monster if done up like the IS and LS tail light upgrades.
10-21-10 | 06:04 PM
#88
Pole Position
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Henry, DJ I have not forgotten yall. Takes time to compile this info. My point is not to say the GS is some grand seller. My point is it did sell well relatively, 3rd best in class most of the time and we should not say it sold poorly. I've always said the E/5 will never be caught up with. THey dominate this segment.
Now some goodies from a trusted source.
Camry interior" massive improvement"
best in class MPG
10 airbags standard
Toyota has a new tech system said to better Ford's Sync called Intuit
Push button standard
2 hybrids offered for it
Sequoia lives on, internet rumors of demise false
New Prius family
Pruis plug in 13 mile range with no gas
Prius sport coupe coming
Prius van coming
For the first time the Lexus mtg was separate. Next GS and SC shown. Both called absolutely gorgous (not sure what that means till I see it
)
Toyota to focus on quality, customer experience, sport and see volume increase with sport, not without it.
Now some goodies from a trusted source.
Camry interior" massive improvement"
best in class MPG
10 airbags standard
Toyota has a new tech system said to better Ford's Sync called Intuit
Push button standard
2 hybrids offered for it
Sequoia lives on, internet rumors of demise false
New Prius family
Pruis plug in 13 mile range with no gas
Prius sport coupe coming
Prius van coming
For the first time the Lexus mtg was separate. Next GS and SC shown. Both called absolutely gorgous (not sure what that means till I see it
)Toyota to focus on quality, customer experience, sport and see volume increase with sport, not without it.
10-22-10 | 01:02 AM
#89
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 2
From: Washington
I hope the SE version retains that distinct sportiness, and even though some didn't like the 'kit' on the SE Camry, I always thought it looked VERY good, and with some wheels, it to me was the best looking midsized sedan, but only the SE trim with the 'mesh' grille.
10-22-10 | 03:45 AM
#90
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,765
Likes: 178
From: California
I agree, the current SE is one of the best looking sedans out there for the price. LED tails, machined alloys, chrome dual exhaust tips, and manumatic shifting with the automatic. A great package the Accord can't touch. Right now the leases are insanely low as the model fades out. Would be a great purchase for anyone in need of something right now.