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Old 10-27-10, 06:12 AM
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SLegacy99
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Default Fuel Economy Regs on Big Rigs

Didn't see a thread going on this, but if there is feel free to merge.

The government on Monday proposed the first regulations limiting fuel consumption of work trucks — from big-rig trucks to concrete mixers, buses, even heavy-duty pickups — saying the rules finally address the thirstiest and most-polluting vehicles on the road.
The proposal, which would take effect with 2014 models and ratchet up through 2018 models, requires a public comment period and other procedures, and wouldn't be final until next year.

The rules would raise the cost of trucks and the diesel engines most of them use, but the government says the payback in fuel-cost savings would be as fast as one year for heavily used over-the-road trucks.

Even so, "We are concerned that this could price some buyers out of the market," says Kyle Treadway, chairman of the American Truck Dealers and owner of a Kenworth dealership in Salt Lake City. Lower fuel consumption is good, he agrees, but the federal proposal "is expected to add thousands of dollars to the cost per truck."

"We're reviewing the proposed rules and approaching (them) with caution," says Norita Taylor of the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association, a trade group representing owners of one or two trucks or small fleets. Well-meaning initiatives sometimes place outsize cost burdens on small-scale truckers, she says.

A conservative group that opposes government involvement in the economy denounced the proposed rules as "energy rationing." Myron Ebell, director of the center for energy and environment at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, said, "The only way to increase fuel efficiency as quickly (as proposed) will be to move less freight," damaging the economy.

The complex proposal would cut fuel use 10% to 20%.

"We've been flatlined at 6 to 6.5 miles per gallon for years" for a loaded tractor-trailer rig, says Glen Kedzie, vice president at the American Trucking Associations, a major industry trade group. That translates to about 16 gallons of diesel fuel per 100 miles. A 20% gain would cut fuel use to about 14 gallons per 100 miles.

Major trucking and shipping interests endorsed the move for its potential cost savings.

ATA noted that it has backed fuel-consumption regulations since 2008. "The proposal, using current technology, is achievable," spokesman Brandon Borgna says.

A consortium representing trucking, shipping and drivetrain companies says it recommended fuel-use regulations for commercial trucks as far back as 2006. Now called the Heavy-Duty Fuel Efficiency Leadership Group, it "devised a set of principles" for big-truck fuel use and proposed them to the Obama administration this year.

Though the emphasis is on semi-tractor rigs and other big trucks, the regulations would apply to vehicles as small as those with an 8,500-pound gross vehicle weight rating (the safe weight of the truck and cargo combined) — a Ford F-250 pickup or equivalent.

The heavy-truck rules would join fuel-economy rules for passenger vehicles that require automakers to average 35.5 miles per gallon in 2016. A recent proposal would push that to as much as 62 mpg in 2025.

The government forecast the truck rules would cost the industry $7.7 billion, but save $35 billion in fuel.

The standards would apply to the manufacturers of both engines and trucks, not to the companies that use them. In the heavy-duty world, buyers often choose engines separately from trucks.

Navistar, which builds both big trucks and the engines that power them at its International Truck and Engine unit, says it's too soon to determine the precise effect of the proposed rules, but hopes the government will "properly incentivize" advanced technologies. Navistar makes fuel-saving diesel-electric hybrid systems for buses and commercial trucks.

The regulations don't address the trailers that semis pull — requiring them to be more aerodynamic, for example — though they dramatically effect fuel use.

Critics say the standards might not be high enough and should "do more to draw advanced technologies into the market" by giving added credit for hybrid drivetrains or advanced transmissions, says Therese Langer, head of transportation issues at the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy, an advocacy group.

The rules are a joint product of the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. EPA specifies fuel-use limits in grams of carbon dioxide emitted per ton-mile. NHTSA specifies gallons of fuel used per 1,000 ton-miles. They say their approaches complement each other.

They both are intended to take into account that a truck hauling steel will burn more fuel, and thus emit more CO2, than a similar truck hauling feather-bedding.

"With just five years of new vehicles sold under this program, America will eliminate the same amount of oil that we import from Russia and Nigeria in a year," says Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., member of several energy-related House committees.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...cks26_ST_N.htm

Makes sense to me, though people always groan about having to fork over more cash initially. This proposal makes a good point, though while drastic measures may not need to be taken, something must be done in order to improve the fuel economy of trucks that dominate our highways. It's logical.

Interestingly enough, a better solution might be for an increase in rail usage to transport goods across the country which would use far less fuel. This would be a cheaper investment, but of course would mean that trucking companies would have to shut down.
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Old 10-27-10, 06:14 AM
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My company began this in 2008.

ROCHESTER, N.Y. — Wegmans Food Markets here said yesterday that it is just starting to receive the first of 101 fuel-efficient trucks that will make up 60% of its next-generation truck fleet. The new trucks will use a 15-liter ISX 500-horsepower diesel engine from Cummins, Jamestown, N.Y., that will reduce emissions by 90% compared with the engine used in the last generation of trucks. In addition, the 71-store chain plans to cut fuel consumption with the new fleet by 92,000 gallons annually. The new trucks’ drivelines feature 10 different gears to let the driver control the torque, or pulling power, of the truck across different driving conditions; they are also equipped with a diesel particulate filter to reduce emissions, and they run on an ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel. “We had our drivers test four tractors from four different manufacturers,” said Tim Murphy, Wegmans’ senior transportation manager, in a statement. “Based on their feedback, we developed the specs for our tractor of the future.” In addition to the initial 110 trucks, and an additional 20 coming before the end of the year, Wegmans plans to replace its remaining older trucks with the new models by 2010.
http://supermarketnews.com/news/wegmans_trucks_0919/

We are now 76 stores, soon to be 77.
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Old 10-27-10, 07:07 AM
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Geez....6mpg is really sad....

Seven major railroad companies reported the following for 2007:

* 1,770,545,245,000 ton-miles of freight were moved
* 4,062,025,082 gallons of diesel fuel were consumed
* That works out to be almost 436 ton-miles per gallon (435.88)

“In fact, if just 10 percent of the freight currently moving by truck went instead by rail, the nation could save one billion gallons of fuel per year."

http://www.sciencebuzz.org/blog/frei...n-miles-gallon

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Old 10-27-10, 07:36 AM
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Interesting facts.

The numbers do add up to something significant...
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Old 10-27-10, 09:59 AM
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It's about time. I have always been bothered how the government regulates car companies passenger cars so much with increasing pollution and fuel economy standards when most are very clean and fuel efficient already yet the biggest polluters and fuel wasters like 18 wheelers and big trucks don't seem to be regulated much at all when it comes to pollutions/fuel economy. What good does forcing more clean fuel efficient cars do when all these big rigs, big trucks, buses, etc next to these clean cars are belching big plumes of black smoke all the time and get horrible fuel economy. These 18 wheelers and big trucks are everywhere too on the roads/highways so the argument that they don't make up that many vehicles on the road is false. I would rather see them regulated more then already highly regulated clean passenger cars.

SUVs should have to abide by the same pollution, fuel economy, weight, safety standards as passenger cars too since they are bought and used for the same purpose as passenger cars.
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Old 10-27-10, 10:05 AM
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18 wheelers are everywhere for a reason because the market has chosen them to be the transporter of our goods hence the most efficient choice overall. Rail can only go where there are rails. If rail was truly more economically viable then why doesn't it have a bigger place in the market?

dont complain when shipping prices are higher and consumer goods are higher because the preferred market choice was regulated more. 6mpg isn't bad when you consider its hauling 60,000 pounds of cargo in addition to the vehicle weight, far better than some passenger vehicle mpg/weight wise.

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Old 10-27-10, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
18 wheelers are everywhere for a reason because the market has chosen them to be the transporter of our goods hence the most efficient choice overall. Rail can only go where there are rails. If rail was truly more economically viable then why doesn't it have a bigger place in the market?

dont complain when shipping prices are higher and consumer goods are higher because the current market choice was regulated more.
Uhhh, these same truckers were threatening to strike when gas hit $4 a gallon 2 years ago. I would THINK it is in their best interest to want more fuel efficiency.

Its been proven as well that newer more aerodynamic trucks help with gas savings compared to the ones most drive.
 
Old 10-27-10, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Uhhh, these same truckers were threatening to strike when gas hit $4 a gallon 2 years ago. I would THINK it is in their best interest to want more fuel efficiency.

Its been proven as well that newer more aerodynamic trucks help with gas savings compared to the ones most drive.
then why go crying to govt about it? Tell manufacturer's yourself to make better trucks. You don't think some manufacturer would've tried to make a better truck engine than its competitors on their own without govt telling them to? Toyota made the Prius and cars like it on its own, without a govt mandate, because they envisioned that fuel prices will rise and there will be a future demand for them.

The rules would raise the cost of trucks and the diesel engines most of them use, but the government says the payback in fuel-cost savings would be as fast as one year for heavily used over-the-road trucks.

The heavy-truck rules would join fuel-economy rules for passenger vehicles that require automakers to average 35.5 miles per gallon in 2016. A recent proposal would push that to as much as 62 mpg in 2025.
yea I've heard this crap before How are we suppose to reach these number's without dramatically lowering the quality in a current car? Don't you think that if a manufacturer could make a 35.5mpg car that they already be doing it? The same goes for a truck. You don't need a govt mandate, but these laws with arbitrary mpg numbers create all kinds of unintentional consequences. How do we even know a 62 mpg car is even possible without everyone driving a Geo Prizm.

Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 10-27-10 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 10-27-10, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by UDel
SUVs should have to abide by the same pollution, fuel economy, weight, safety standards as passenger cars too since they are bought and used for the same purpose as passenger cars.
Amen.


I'd be interested to know what proportion of vehicles on the road are semis. However, with efficient railines thanks to new technology such as diesel-hybrid locomotives, rail is becoming more appealing. If you look at a city like Altoona, Pennsylvania which was once a major hub for the railroad it became depressed when rail usage lessened. As of abour 5 years ago the railroad and the town have started to come back. So perhaps an increase in rail usage is becoming a reality.


We could use the airline industry as another example. High gas prices convinced many airliners to install aerodynamic pieces to their planes to save fuel. So while a hybrid semi may be a serious investment, improving aerodynamics could be a "cheap" solution that could go a long way.
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Old 10-28-10, 06:13 PM
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I just realized that I should have titled this thread "Regs on Rigs".
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Old 10-29-10, 09:25 PM
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I have always been bothered how the government regulates car companies passenger cars so much with increasing pollution and fuel economy standards when most are very clean and fuel efficient already yet the biggest polluters and fuel wasters like 18 wheelers and big trucks don't seem to be regulated much at all when it comes to pollutions/fuel economy. What good does forcing more clean fuel efficient cars do when all these big rigs, big trucks, buses, etc next to these clean cars are belching big plumes of black smoke all the time and get horrible fuel economy
Whoa boy,, I could go ON and ON and On about the disparancies in alot of the comments in this thread, but I wont. I quoted this particular response only to address some FACTS; not pick on the poster.

As a trucker of close to 10 years now I Will say a few things.

1. I DO agree that the fuel consumption of big trucks need to be drastically inmproved; as the average truck has a consumption rating of about 6-7mpg. Keep in mind that this consumption is while pulling a load of about 45K pounds down the highway @ about 65-70 miles per hour. Could it be better,,yes. Does this need to be better,,DEFINATELY!!!

2. As far as the pollution factor of big trucks, I truly do feel that ALOT of people fail to realize that the average big truck on the road today ACTUALLY produces less pollution than most cars now; tho we DO use a heck of alot more fuel. As of 2008, ALL large truck manufacturers were REQUIRED to produce cleaner burning engines which meet a more stringent California Emission requirement than the average automobile. ALSO in 2006, diesel was also REQUIRED to be refined to add LESS sulfur that was allowed to be put into diesel fuel. The sulfur content is what gave diesel that characteristic "smell" as well as that thick, sooty black cloud of smoke; not to mention being a Major cause of acid rain. Before 2008, the sulfur content in diesel was, IIRC about 500 PPM (parts per million), todays regulation for diesel is 15 PPM (this is for highway use,, trains and ships require more for their applications). Also available for the large truck market is BIO-DIESEL, which contains NO petroleum as well as NO sulfur. Is almost the equivalent of running a truck on vegetable oil. Another alternative in the fight against "large truck pollution" is the addition of a urea based(yes,,you guessed it cow pee) fluid into a seperate container which burns with the exhaust system to chemically produce a clean burning exhaust<See ADBLUE for further research>. This chemical reaction of the urea based fluid, in the hot exhaust stack, produces a chemical reaction which results in an exhaust of just plain nitrogen as well as WATER VAPOR!! Last, but not least, hybrid technology is also in use on large trucks however it is still in it's testing stages as so far it has not proven to stand up extended application. A few companies (UPS being a major company using them) are trying them out in medium duty application (local deliveries, short runs, etc).

Is the industry free of pollution,,NO. Is the industry regulated, and continuing to be regulated in the right direction to reduce pollution,,YES!!

3. Alot of "average people" say that us truckers are running around UNREGULATED, oh how wrong this statement is. The trucking industry is probably one of the more regulated industries in the country, and at the govt's current rate(if they are not careful), is slowly trying to be phased out of existence. The impact of this action would be amost the equivalent of Armagedon!!

4. YES, rail useage is starting to see a resurgance in it's applications, but let's face it, rails are not the ultimate answer. Trucks are ALWAYS gonna be needed to transport goods from the highways, railways, shipyards, airports, etc., into the areas. The average train is not gonna be able to pull up to your local supermarket, mall, etc in order to replenish your local stores. Also, trucks move approx 85% of the economy. We truly are the "backbone of the nation". Think about it, trucks deliver just about EVERYTHING that is used in your normal, everyday life (gas,cloths, food, coffee,,even our prescious Lexus'). At one point and time, EVERYTHING has seen the confines of a truck.

Its been proven as well that newer more aerodynamic trucks help with gas savings compared to the ones most drive.
Very true statement. Most of the lesser aerodynamic trucks are SLOWLY being phased out of the market as they age. Most MAJOR companies (JB HUNT, SWIFT, SCHNEIDER, etc.) use and continue to rotate their fleet on a 5 year basis. Private owners tend to lean more toward the traditional looking, "old skool" trucks; is just a matter of style and personal preference.

Last edited by trukn1; 10-29-10 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 10-29-10, 09:57 PM
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Good points above, except for number 2 (first couple sentences not correct).
And I see no mention of the industry fighting regs for years when commercial diesels were truly gross polluters.
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Old 10-31-10, 03:05 PM
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Ok,, maybe not lower in emission than some cars, but def alot lower than trucks of just 5 years ago.

Being and working in the industry for close to 10 years now, I can assure you that I have seen the changes firsthand. The reason why you may not see/hear about the industry regs is that most of them are started/passed by govt agencies beginning at the state level. EPA and alot of different advocacy groups, in cooperation with state/local govt pass the regs at the local/state level, and from there is pretty much spreads like wildfire from one state to another. FEDERAL govt was not too involved in the process until a majority of states had passed legislation. Regulations, rules, etc for trucks have been in effect for years, however itis sad to say that the industry will NEVER get the airtime/presstime that it deserves to highlight the advances being made in the industry. It really wasnt until the inception of this current administration, has the industry received such widescale attention on the federal level.
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Old 10-31-10, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SLegacy99

Makes sense to me, though people always groan about having to fork over more cash initially. This proposal makes a good point, though while drastic measures may not need to be taken, something must be done in order to improve the fuel economy of trucks that dominate our highways. It's logical.

Interestingly enough, a better solution might be for an increase in rail usage to transport goods across the country which would use far less fuel. This would be a cheaper investment, but of course would mean that trucking companies would have to shut down.
America has one of the best commercial shipping rail systems in the world... we are just a huge country with tons of stuff to be moved around.

That aside, though... trucking lobbies will prevent that from ever happening.

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Old 10-31-10, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by trukn1
Ok,, maybe not lower in emission than some cars, but def alot lower than trucks of just 5 years ago.
No kidding and not running cleaner than any new car sold in the US in 2010. And no reason they should be expected to run cleaner than a 2500-5000 pound passenger vehicle, given the work they do and payloads carried. Of course they are running cleaner than the trucks of past years, many commercial diesels (not just trucks) were running as super gross polluters spewing particulate matter and pollution in huge quantities.

I agree the automotive industry and trucking industry also has made great strides in reducing air pollution over last decade.

Last edited by IS-SV; 10-31-10 at 09:49 PM.
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