huge tax breaks for Leaf (rated at 99 MPG)
11-09-10, 09:05 PM
#16
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You're definitely right about the energy grid not being able to handle the added capacity. Last I checked, 80% of energy consumption is for transportation. However, keep in mind that the Leaf (even fully sold out and at max production) will not make a significant dent on the network. The increase will also be gradual over time, and not be suddenly onset all at once, unlike weather changes and heating/cooling demands. But first things first, CA needs to change a lot of stuff. . . it's a shame people only look at the top of the food chain and blame the Governor for everything, but the fact of the matter is the entire system is messed up, starting with the completely useless and unproductive state congress/senate.
11-09-10, 10:27 PM
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Someone please school me on the term tax credit or tax incentive. Does that mean they are taking $7500 off of the sticker price or are they letting me credit $7500 on my income tax and I just have to pay less tax? I have a friend who is a CPA and he says the term tax incentive does not mean deducting the $7500 from the MSRP, but all these stories are saying i can purchase a Volt or Leaf for $7500 off of MSRP, thus making a $42,000 Volt into a $34,500 car?
11-10-10, 05:18 AM
#18
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11-10-10, 06:46 AM
#19
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11-10-10, 07:01 AM
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^ I know. But their solution would be the murder of the billions of non-vegans in the world. Nuclear power is the lesser of two evils, IMO. It's pretty much free power. Yes, the half life of nuclear waste is a looooong time, but burning hydrocarbons and depleting fossil fuels is not a better alternative. Solar and wind power suck too; not cost effective.
There are plenty of ways to dispose of nuclear waste.
There are plenty of ways to dispose of nuclear waste.
11-10-10, 08:14 AM
#21
The nuclear power debate is a whole nother animal. I do find it entertaining that one of the "former" leaders of greenpeace is now pro-nuclear 
Being involved in the power generating industry, I just don't see how our infrastructure could support every household having an electric car, and everyone trying to charge them during the "off-peak" hours at night. I can honestly say I have no idea what kind of power draw charging an all electric car would require however. Just to me seems like it's going to require a good bit of juice, making "off-peak" hours not so off peak anymore.
Being involved in the power generating industry, I just don't see how our infrastructure could support every household having an electric car, and everyone trying to charge them during the "off-peak" hours at night. I can honestly say I have no idea what kind of power draw charging an all electric car would require however. Just to me seems like it's going to require a good bit of juice, making "off-peak" hours not so off peak anymore.
11-10-10, 05:42 PM
#22
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^ I agree. But again, keep in mind that the increase in demand won't happen overnight. Even if ALL global manufacturers cease to build gasoline I.C.E. cars, it would still take a minimum of 15 years to transition everyone. Spending would cost well over 10-20 Trillion dollars to replace the entire vehicle population, which our GDP couldn't even support, even if we dumped every dollar into replacing cars. If we spent 30% of our GDP (which is INSANELY huge and unrealistic) each year, it would still take almost 5 years. . .
The Leaf will not make any significant impact. And it will be a slow transition. There will be plenty of time to add infrastructure to the electrical grid, and increase in disposable income and increased budgets should allot for the upgrades. But they would have to start planning A.S.A.P., since our over-inflated and bloated government takes a decade to get anything done. It takes a couple of days to decide to go to war or spend billions bailing out banks and the auto-industry, but it takes 10 years to build a fence, add powerplants, or even to put a hardened criminal in court. . .
The Leaf will not make any significant impact. And it will be a slow transition. There will be plenty of time to add infrastructure to the electrical grid, and increase in disposable income and increased budgets should allot for the upgrades. But they would have to start planning A.S.A.P., since our over-inflated and bloated government takes a decade to get anything done. It takes a couple of days to decide to go to war or spend billions bailing out banks and the auto-industry, but it takes 10 years to build a fence, add powerplants, or even to put a hardened criminal in court. . .
11-10-10, 08:47 PM
#23
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Someone please school me on the term tax credit or tax incentive. Does that mean they are taking $7500 off of the sticker price or are they letting me credit $7500 on my income tax and I just have to pay less tax? I have a friend who is a CPA and he says the term tax incentive does not mean deducting the $7500 from the MSRP, but all these stories are saying i can purchase a Volt or Leaf for $7500 off of MSRP, thus making a $42,000 Volt into a $34,500 car?
You still have to qualify and purchase the car at the sticker price (minus the usual negotiated discounts). This is going to be a particular problem for the Volt. The market that can finance a $41,000 car is quite limited and compounded by it being a small vehicle with the performance of a sub-$20K car.
Yes, you have to file it on your income taxes.
11-10-10, 11:15 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
My coworker's dad ordered a Leaf way back in the beginning. This was so early on, the dealership hadn't got caught up in all the full/over-sticker hype yet. He is getting $600 off sticker. When these things go on sale, I have a feeling they will be going well over sticker. He got a heck of a deal, along with the CA rebates.
While on topic of the Leaf, he's supposed to be one of the first in L.A. to take delivery. His son and I will do a review here if I can get enough seat time.
While on topic of the Leaf, he's supposed to be one of the first in L.A. to take delivery. His son and I will do a review here if I can get enough seat time.
11-10-10, 11:20 PM
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A review would be awesome. The car is hideous, imo, but the package and above all else the PRICE are right on. It's a big reason Tesla is having so much trouble. I'm sorry, but there isn't much of a market for $90k Electric cars. The people who can afford those cars can afford the gas, and hippie's THAT devoted and THAT rich are very limited in numbers.
Of course, Tesla doesn't have the same level of capital as Nissan, or any major car company, but still I think their business strategy has been all wrong. . .
Of course, Tesla doesn't have the same level of capital as Nissan, or any major car company, but still I think their business strategy has been all wrong. . .
11-10-10, 11:52 PM
#26
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A review would be awesome. The car is hideous, imo, but the package and above all else the PRICE are right on. It's a big reason Tesla is having so much trouble. I'm sorry, but there isn't much of a market for $90k Electric cars. The people who can afford those cars can afford the gas, and hippie's THAT devoted and THAT rich are very limited in numbers.
Of course, Tesla doesn't have the same level of capital as Nissan, or any major car company, but still I think their business strategy has been all wrong. . .
Of course, Tesla doesn't have the same level of capital as Nissan, or any major car company, but still I think their business strategy has been all wrong. . .
11-11-10, 06:32 AM
#27
Out of Warranty
Plug-in electrics are pretty cool from a technology standpoint, but as a totally clean means of transit, they fall far short of their hype. Electrically powered vehicles may not produce the tailpipe pollution of an ICE, but they merely displace the combustion problem from the automobile to an electrical generating plant, most of which burn fossil fuels and are far more polluting than most automobiles.
What's worse is that during the overnight recharging cycle, energy demand may be at its lowest, but so are the winds that help dissipate smokestack pollution from these power plants, resulting in a thin miasma of gunk hanging near the ground at daylight. Then there is the ozone problem, the result of all of those charge-discharge cycles and electric motors.
Nuclear plants still have a considerable problem with what to do with spent fuel, and wind, water, and solar power aren't available except in specific geographic locations. On the Texas coast, we have a flat prairie, and on average, too many clouds for reliable solar, too little wind for sustainable wind turbines, and not enough elevation change for hydro power. Our tidal variation is maybe a foot, so that's out too. We're not alone in this, either, while some locations are blessed with ample renewable resources, the cost of pumping those electrons across the country is still prohibitive.
While alternative fuel research is a great idea, taking it public at this point on a major scale may risk sufficient public disappointment as to deflate the market for so-called "green" energy.
What's worse is that during the overnight recharging cycle, energy demand may be at its lowest, but so are the winds that help dissipate smokestack pollution from these power plants, resulting in a thin miasma of gunk hanging near the ground at daylight. Then there is the ozone problem, the result of all of those charge-discharge cycles and electric motors.
Nuclear plants still have a considerable problem with what to do with spent fuel, and wind, water, and solar power aren't available except in specific geographic locations. On the Texas coast, we have a flat prairie, and on average, too many clouds for reliable solar, too little wind for sustainable wind turbines, and not enough elevation change for hydro power. Our tidal variation is maybe a foot, so that's out too. We're not alone in this, either, while some locations are blessed with ample renewable resources, the cost of pumping those electrons across the country is still prohibitive.
While alternative fuel research is a great idea, taking it public at this point on a major scale may risk sufficient public disappointment as to deflate the market for so-called "green" energy.
11-11-10, 06:54 AM
#28
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Not to get political, but I really wonder what the thinking is when the President and many green pushers constantly push for electric cars. It's as if they think electricity is purely a green source. Or that producing huge batteries is "clean".
And then coming out of the other side of their mouths they push for Cap and Tax which would devastate electricity rates. Obama even said so. So they want us all in handicapped cars (electric) but also want to limit electricity.
Makes perfect sense!
And then coming out of the other side of their mouths they push for Cap and Tax which would devastate electricity rates. Obama even said so. So they want us all in handicapped cars (electric) but also want to limit electricity.
Makes perfect sense!
11-11-10, 07:38 AM
#29
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Thread Starter
Plug-in electrics are pretty cool from a technology standpoint, but as a totally clean means of transit, they fall far short of their hype. Electrically powered vehicles may not produce the tailpipe pollution of an ICE, but they merely displace the combustion problem from the automobile to an electrical generating plant, most of which burn fossil fuels and are far more polluting than most automobiles.
What's worse is that during the overnight recharging cycle, energy demand may be at its lowest, but so are the winds that help dissipate smokestack pollution from these power plants, resulting in a thin miasma of gunk hanging near the ground at daylight. Then there is the ozone problem, the result of all of those charge-discharge cycles and electric motors.
Nuclear plants still have a considerable problem with what to do with spent fuel, and wind, water, and solar power aren't available except in specific geographic locations. On the Texas coast, we have a flat prairie, and on average, too many clouds for reliable solar, too little wind for sustainable wind turbines, and not enough elevation change for hydro power. Our tidal variation is maybe a foot, so that's out too. We're not alone in this, either, while some locations are blessed with ample renewable resources, the cost of pumping those electrons across the country is still prohibitive.
While alternative fuel research is a great idea, taking it public at this point on a major scale may risk sufficient public disappointment as to deflate the market for so-called "green" energy.
What's worse is that during the overnight recharging cycle, energy demand may be at its lowest, but so are the winds that help dissipate smokestack pollution from these power plants, resulting in a thin miasma of gunk hanging near the ground at daylight. Then there is the ozone problem, the result of all of those charge-discharge cycles and electric motors.
Nuclear plants still have a considerable problem with what to do with spent fuel, and wind, water, and solar power aren't available except in specific geographic locations. On the Texas coast, we have a flat prairie, and on average, too many clouds for reliable solar, too little wind for sustainable wind turbines, and not enough elevation change for hydro power. Our tidal variation is maybe a foot, so that's out too. We're not alone in this, either, while some locations are blessed with ample renewable resources, the cost of pumping those electrons across the country is still prohibitive.
While alternative fuel research is a great idea, taking it public at this point on a major scale may risk sufficient public disappointment as to deflate the market for so-called "green" energy.
you're right...let's keep on keepin on....
11-19-10, 10:47 PM
#30
What is the point of this car. They say it has a range of 100 miles but if you use the AC and radio you will more than likely get 47 miles on a full charge. Also it says you need about 20 hours for a full charge??? Whats the point on spending 32k on this car if you cant use it ?