WAES300

It's a shame that Toyota products in general have taken the course they have in terms of interior quality. I always liked my parents' Toyota's, because they had such nice interiors, even in a base model.

Every new redesign that Toyota/Scion comes out with, it's just a let down after let down, IMO. Even some Lexus's too- although I haven't actually seen those in person. I hope my ES runs forever. I love the feeling that it's still "oozing of quality" even at over 200K miles.

dj.ctwatt

I was MORE in love with Toyota/Lexus in the 90's and early 2000's. Except for the LS460/600, I'm a little disappointed. Back then, I wouldn't have even considered buying from another company. . . but nowadays I find myself looking elsewhere. I still like the products, but they are not nearly as captivating as they used to be. The original GS400 was a work of art, the original SC300/400, and the interiors. . . everything. Today, it's still nice, but not nearly as "passionate" as it used to be. And being that I moved to Thailand, we have an import tax of 200%+ on cars built outside of the country. So yeah, I'm not going to spend $150,000 on a Lexus. It doesn't cost much more for a Mercedes here, and if I have that much disposable income, I want the stupid badge on the front for bragging rights (it's a huge cultural mentality here).

Toyota REALLY needs to up there game, and I think this trend will continue, especially because of the Yen/$. Honestly they just need to invest MORE and take the losses so that when the currency markets improve, they can come out ahead. Right now they are following GM's path circa 1975, and once they lose their market, it'll be VERY hard to win to them back. I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I feel as if Toyota will be at the same level as Chevrolet, Lexus with Caddilac, and Scion deceased (sales are horrid for Scion with their new models). I think Ford is going to steal huge market share, and the Germans are going to win back a huge chunk of the luxury market). But I'm taking a guess pulled out of my fudge factory.

LexFather

Great review. The TC was pretty much finished before Mr. Toyoda took the helm and promised a return to quality. So while new, its still a product of the "live fast" cheaper Toyota. Still mag reviews seem to like it more than the previous model.

Question Mike. Do you think the interior was cheap compared to a Lexus or cheap compared to its competition and relative price? It is a 20k car. I've find myself initially critical of a car then having to check myself and remind myself it is not a luxury car and built to a much lower price point.

dj.ctwatt

^Compared to a Mazda3, Ford Focus, or even a Civic, I'd say it's pretty cheap, but I'm interested to hear what you guys have to say.

mmarshall

Thanks.
I'd say its chassis, and to a lesser extent its drivetrain, has some character, especially compared to the previous version. And the styling doesn't look too bad, either. But I can understand your son's disappointment with the interior....and the interior is imortant, because you spend a lot of time in it.

I don't know this for a fact, but it could (?) be linked to the fact that all Scions sell for full-list. That means that, in a lease, you are paying for the entire depreciation between the full-list and the projected residual-value, not a discounted original selling-price. That, of course, could bump up the monthly payment a little.



Congragulations. No doubt the Mini is a barrel of fun to drive (I tested a Clubman version some time ago). And, like the Scion, there is an endless choice of trim items/accessories.....even some the Scion does not offer, like national-flag and checkered-flag-painted roofs.
The only downside is that the average Mini is not likely to be as reliable as the average Scion.

mmarshall

Even today, though, Toyota/Scion interiors are not all in the same boat. Some are quite well-done; others are very cheap and disappointing. The big Toyota Land Cruiser, for exmple, has, IMO, one of the most durably-built interiors of ANY new vehicle I've seen in the marketplace. it's also quite plush and comfortable. But, of course, you pay for it.

We hear that same complaint with new Hondas and Acuras, too.....not to mention Honda/Acura's often-questionable styling. But Honda, on the whole, seems to screw their new vehicles together at the factory a little better then Toyota does nowadays. Their interiors, though still with a lot of plastic, seem somewhat higher-quality, too.

mmarshall

I have to agree. IMO, Toyota built some of their best products in the mid-1990s. I had a blue 1995 Celica....loved the styling/quality, and I kept that car 6 years, longer then average for me.


Honda and Acura have (usually) built super-reliable cars, too, although some models had automatic-transmission problems from time to time.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I was a diehard Toyota guy but find I'm sort of drifting away from Toyota too.I usually don't keep vehicles long.
Not a fan of Honda or Acura,though.
I don't know what I would buy next but I will be looking at other brands more than I have in the past.

bigbwb

When can we expect to see the supposed "quality improvements" on the materials and etc from new cars being developed after Toyoda took the helm? I would imagine models coming out in the 2012-2013 range would hopefully reflect this, no? Can we speculate which models would give us a good glimpse into the future (from Lexus or Toyota)?

mmarshall

Thanks.

It does have quality sheet metal and a well-designed chassis/drivetrain, but it looks like most of the money ran out for the trim inside.


Of course the mags are going to like it more. It's a legitimate sport coupe now, except somewhat lacking in noise control and a quality interior.

Can't even mention Lexus in the same breath...though, of course, to be fair, you don't buy a brand-new Lexus for 19K. But, having said that, IMO, the tC's interior is definitely not in the same league as its Honda Civic coupe/hatchback. Even the current-generation Chevy Cobalt coupe (not to mention the upcoming new Cruze) is better-finished inside. The new Hyundai Kia Forte coupe has shown a slight cheapening inside over its previous ( Spectra) version, but still is a better-finished inside, too.

Yes, I agree....I try and take that into consideration, too. But there are still some things that, IMO, all new vehicles should have, such as hood-struts, body-side mouldings, breakaway/folding side mirrors, a real spare tire, etc.....
When they are not included, I will mention it.

mmarshall

The current Focus is not particularly well-finished...but an all-new 2012 model is coming a January. We'll have to see how that model turns out.

As for the Civic and Mazda3, I agree, both are better-finished inside, though the tC does have excellent-quality sheet metal on the outside. The Civic uses a fair amount of plastic, but it is durable, extremely well-fitted, and the controls, like in all Hondas, all operate with Swiss-watch precision.

mmarshall

Hyundai and Kia are doing some good stuff now, and offer good value, comparatively low prices, and a very long warranty for the money. I also have a high opinion of Subarus, particularly for bad weather, but some of the very latest-models have had decontenting and quality issues.

mmarshall

IMO, we saw some of that improvement in the latest Highlander. The 2010 Lexus ES350 also had a noticeably upgraded dash/interior trim, and more attention paid to the squeak/rattle issue. I was also quite impresssed with the latest RX350.

bigbwb

I agree on those vehicles but my 2010 4runner went the other way, unfortunately. I am still holding my breath that even more improvements will be made to the next model year vehicles in terms of interior material quality and fit and finish. Toyota has always had for the most part, solid drivetrains, its the asthetic stuff that sticks out lately.

spwolf

1st gen tC had nothing like Avensis interior... Avensis has mini Lexus interior.

as to the review, tC is one of the best deals on the market right now with big engine, 6 speed AT, and so much equipment... cant expect it to be Lexus.

Also I had to laugh at this:
"Flat-bottom steering wheel a help on entry/exit."

Those new Toyota steering wheels are among best in the industry... And thing that popped in your mind was "help on entry/exit" :-). BMW owner would want that steering wheel :-).

p.s. mmarshal did you do review on 2008 WRX?