TokerIS350

iTrader: (13)

Im sure they can, but they probably choose not to.
Toyota/Lexus are reliable/comfortable cars, with some sportier cars of course. I think their main concern is reliability, since that's what their known for.

Just my 2 cents.

Autobacs

iTrader: (1)

^
Exactly. You just forgot to add Quality!

I willl say this though. If I was going to buy an American car right now, it would be a Ford. They are not yet on par with Toyota but they are the best of the American makes.

TokerIS350

iTrader: (13)

Oh yeah Quality/Reliability/Comfort = Toyota / Lexus, Except Lexus is a big + on luxury, something American cars lack for the most part.

Ford = Fix Or Repair Daily

Lol Jk.

But it never gets old.

The one and only american car that makes my jaw drop almost everytime is the Corvette Z06/ZR1.

Shelby GTs and Saleens aren't too bad either.

mmarshall

Don't sell the Mustang's old-fashioned live axle short. The latest Road and Track issue compared a new 2011 Mustang GT with a Camaro SS, and felt the Mustang (now) has the better handling. Ford made some changes to the 2011 Mustang suspension....without dumping the lixe axle, except on the Shelby models, which have generally been IRS. And, last, the live axle is durable....Ford knows that lots of Mustang GT buyers do regular burnouts, which places a lot of stress on the drivertain.

PurduePete

Those are nice pics and specs, but I have never thought of owning a Mustang nor a Camaro. Sure give it to me for free, I'll take it and sell it for profit, but going out and buying one? Nope! Sure they can be good cars, but I just can't see myself owning one. I don't know what it is, can't explain it. Maybe my import performance days had something to do with it......haha!

CDNROCKIES

If you are only talking straight performance numbers then compare all you want, however there is much more to a car than just it's performance stats. I'd certainly agree that it is a great bang for the buck car, but they are completely different cars than the M3/IS F/C63. I had a new '11 GT 5.0 'Vert last month for three days and while the engine was impressive, the rest of the car was less than. The target market of the Mustang favors the rawness of the car, while the M3/IS F/C63 do so with a level of luxury. Different strokes for different folks.

Autobacs

iTrader: (1)

Excellent point that illustrates why I think the Mustang is not comparable to the ISF and vice versa.

Not sure why you think I'm sellling live axles short when I said they "are great for drag and not so great for the track". I do undertand that they are superior for drag racing.

mmarshall

OK....Sorry, perhaps I should have used another term (maybe I misunderstood your post). But the point I was making was that the Mustang's latest (2011) live-axle suspension/steering seems to be doing pretty good on the track, too ..........not just on the drag strip. The issue, of course, is that many have accused Ford of simple cost-cutting and penny-pitching by using a simple, decades-old system. But that has been done for more reasons that just simplicity or cost-cutting. Durability and resistance to damage has also been a big factor. True, Ford does put IRS on the Shelbys and Cobra Mustangs, but, in general, they not only cost a lot more, but are bought and driven by a more mature, less-juvenile group of drivers that don't abuse them (and the drivetrains) as much as the Friday-night high-school crowd.

mercurymet

[QUOTE=Damage;5714363]Toyota needs to step it up with engine development. The regular Mustang GT already has identical HP figures as our car and now this new Boss version surpasses that. I know "it's just a mustang", but it's kinda disappointing to see that Ford is making progress with their N/A powered 5L engine and Toyota hasn't done anything to the engine since introducing the ISF.



A key factory advantage of the 2011 5 liter Ford is the stainless tubular headers.

Now that we have Sikky and Elite products, and hopefully ones with highflow cats, our output with just the headers should be around 460-470 at the flywheel. Headers and exhaust - ? 480- 495. Compared with 414 or 440 (Boss). The GT (and probably Boss) curb around 3600 - 3650 compared to ISF's 3780.

GT/Boss 8.69/8.18 Lbs/hp versus stock/headered ISF 9.08/8.04 Lbs/hp.

I look forward to getting the headers as more dyno info becomes available.

ISFer

iTrader: (2)

+1.
I'm a longtime Ford fan even thru the 'bad' years of the industry, but the latest Ford iterations, especially the new Mustangs, are light years ahead of what they once were.
As to Toy competing with Mustang hp..... Why should they? The cars are totally different. The 'Stang could have 600 hp and I'd still love my 'F'.
Having said all that would I still like a new Mustang? You bet I would but for a totally different reason than the 'F'.
The F is still a great performer with style, panache, quality, luxury, and sport all rolled into one. The Mustang fall short in many of those categories. -- but it is more affordable for the masses.

C.

BartleDoo

iTrader: (1)

I'd like to see more data on it, but I'd much rather have a 2000 Cobra R. In fact, that is the only Mustang I'd consider owning even though I have owned a Mustang before.

bagwell

According to Robert Parker, a Ford spokesman, the 2012 Boss 302 will be available next spring. Mr. Parker did not disclose the price but said it would be between that of the current Mustang GT ($30,495, including destination) and the GT 500 ($49,495).

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...-the-old-boss/

IS-SV

Love it, the Boss is back. Agreed, no significant number of Mustang buyers are cross-shopping M3/IS-F/C63.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

2012 Mustang Boss 302 to come with special key for race calibration, free track day

As if the 2012 Mustang Boss 302 wasn't tempting enough with 440 horsepower and killer good looks, Ford is throwing in a few extra goodies to make it that much more desirable.

2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 TracKeyFirst off, the Blue Oval announced today that owners of the new Boss 302 will receive a dual set of keys, one of which, 'TracKey,' activates a secondary PCM race tune that alters nearly 200 engine management parameters for the 5.0-liter V8. "From an engine management standpoint, we've done just about everything possible to give TracKey users a full race car experience," says Jeff Seaman, Mustang powertrain engineer. "It's not for use on the street – for example, the deceleration is set up to preserve the brakes, and the throttle response is very aggressive. A skilled driver on a closed course will really appreciate the benefits." The TracKey also features a two-stage launch control feature similar to the one on the Cobra Jet Mustang that can be controlled via buttons on the steering wheel.

Not wanting all of that new technology to go to waste, Ford has also announced that it will be offering customers a complimentary track day to test out their new ride. Offered through Team Mustang and Ford Racing, Boss 302 owners will be treated to driving instruction and track time at Miller Motorsports Park in Tooele, UT. Owners will need to book their own travel arrangements, but once there, everything is free of charge.

With the way things are shaping up for the Boss, we're already pondering second mortgages and/or raiding our children's college funds for one of the coolest pony cars ever. If you're good at resisting such temptations, hit the jump and read all of the details in the press releases from Ford.


Gallery:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-...s-302/#3269563

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/11/2...race-calibrat/

Civic Si-r

Yep just read this morning about the special "red" key. Ford has stepped up big on this one and I just may look into owning a ford .....Boss 302